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So I'm currently in the process of building a "freedom fund". Basically a portfolio that throws off distribution income that allows me to live off of it... If my businesses all go to hell, I can pay my rent, buy food, pay bills, etc

The idea is to remove risk from my day to day life, allowing me to take business opportunities that are more risky

(not stupid risky, but educated risky)

Essentially, it's the same theory as the FI/RE, MMM crew preach, but less mediocre :slightly_smiling_face:

((Yearly base living expenses / 4) * 100) = Investment Capital

Theory being that 4% is a safe withdrawal rate/yield over history (heavily debated, but I need some sort of benchmark)

Because of my tax situation, I choose to invest on LON and SGX stock exchanges as there are no withholding taxes for non-residents

The FI/RE and MMM crew are similar to the Bogleheads that preach buying your age (%) in US treasury bonds and the rest in total stock market fund or S&P500 funds.

As irrational as it may be, I prefer the income approach - what I buy I have very little intention to sell. While I'm earning I will reinvest the income which helps me to rebalance my portfolio over time.

Some funds have been purchased for greater income, others for less income and speculative gain. I'll let you do your research on the below: LON:IEML LON:IUKD LON:VWRD SGX:ES3 SGX:AW9U

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ah ncie

I also want to do this stuff, have cash sitting on accounts doing nothing, need to invest it

read all the ERE, MMM, bogleheads, reddit PF, etc

I have to run @kl5340dc - please keep the conversation going, I'll reply when I'm back.

what I concluded was to just invest lump sum in s&p500 fund (vanguard harder outside us though, but there's alternative)

from everything I studied over the last year it seems boring but safe enough approach if you don't touch it for 30 years which is what I'd do

meanwhile business is makingenough profits I can just keep adding and adding to it

my thinking is that if ther's enough invested to cover the yearly expenses (30k for me) - then I can start diversifying a little moreon top of teh pure sp500

thinking barbell strategy from Taleb of doing 10% in higher risk stuff while keep 90% in "convervative" index funds, with health cashflow to add more on top of it

Where I'm stuck at right now - which country do I setup investment account - how to pull money from business into investment account (ideally not as personal income first, as to avoid tax - setup company for the investment? but if there are dividends, they stay in company too? hm) - how to protect the investment account (trust, holding?)

@jase - regarding risk - this is also what motivates me. HAving enough in taht investment fund, that it doesn't matter what happens business wise. I'm positive that business will continue to be great, but it just gets you in a very ballsy attitude when you don't give a darn about failing because you know there's backup plan.

from what I've read the past year, it seems going 30/70 bond/stock only makes sense if you can't stomach big fluctuations in stocks. The rule I've kept seen coming over & over is don't sell when it's down, keepbuying. If you can stick with that, then going 100% stock is better 30years. The hard part is makin sure you won't sell when stocks lose a ton of their value at one point during the 30y

that said, with enough cash it seems to me that advice is not relevant anymore. Ex: 30k expenses a year you need a million FU money. Ok. Makes sense to go all stocks if it's ha rd to get to that million which for people being employees (most MMM readers I guess) is probably the way to go. But if you have a business the million is easier to reach. What do you do after that million then? PRob makes sense to diversify just to mitigate the risk a bit. You can afford it at that point since FU level reached

I havent done any of this, just based on a lot and lot of reading over past year. I lost money on stocks in my early 20s, so the idea of going tback into this made me very very uncomfortable :slightly_smiling_face:

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RE: being stuck. Here's some thoughts: - until you have $1mm to protect, forget a holding company unless there's a tax benefit. - Singapore, Hong Kong and UK are good places to buy funds. LON:VWRD from memory has around a 9% withholding tax in the end. An S&P500 ETF in the states would be 30%. - Singapore/HK/UK again have good trading accounts.

Agreed that 30/70 is for people that can't handle the fluctuations. I do like the bond/dividend income though because it means you're not forced to sell if shit really went badly

So for instance if you buy 100% SP500, and your business goes under, and the market tanks

and you need to sell $30k worth to pay for your expenses...

Whereas ideally with distributions (which there is a little bit of in a SP index for sure), at the least you can sell a few less shares while they are undervalued

yeah another thing is to hold 3y in expenses in cash I was thinking

just in case something goes bad there's that

=> why holding bad idea before 1mm to invest? because overhead it creates? => I'm htinking tax benefit is if you're resident of country that taxes Wworldwide income, then only take small income from company/pay tax on that, majority of income put in investment company and avoid getting taxed on it - is that possible?

In BE there's zero capital gains etc the only tax is high dividend tax, but you can circumvent that by choosing accumulating etfs and then selling shares when you need income

but want to severe link with home country

I see you choose REIT there, read it wasn't worth it

It's a personal opinion - depends on what business you are doing but in my opinion the effort is better spent getting more cash than protecting a small amount of cash. Once you have more than 1mm, it's worth protecting IMO. Obviously you want to protect everything you have, but you will likely pay more in fees/time/hassles to protect it and it will never get taken from you anyway.

Tax is a hard one. Simon would know more but in a lot of cases I suspect you'd trigger CFC laws, so there's minimal benefit to it.

is BE Belgium? If it is I suspect you'd have CFC laws or equivalent..?

Define "not worth it". I wanted greater exposure to Indo/SG/Aus in the aged care segment. Granted VWRD has REITs already, but if you want income I see nothing wrong with them. Just good to be aware that property is potentially in a bubble in most developed countries.

kay

BE belgium yes. BE has no CFC rule afaik, no capital gains etc. It's an interesting country for when you're already rich. Not intresting country for trying to become rich.

Interesting. I guess most countries are the same but maybe to a lesser extent.

In a lot of countries, deferring income is a good thing... but if you do change residency to a low tax country, get all the income you can out now and reinvest

there's been rich french people, most notable the actor Gerard Depardieu (200 million net worth) who changed residency to BE to avoid high tax in France (appearently was paying 75% there)

French gov not happy at all, shamed him publicly, he wrote a letter back to the minister that if he owned the country anything he paid enough already, with his passport in attach :slightly_smiling_face:

BE is bringing corporate tax down from 34% to 20% by 2020 - currently talks about this.

Good on them

So what's your issue with FI/RE,MMM crew - you call it mediocre and that you prefer the income approach. it seems you mean with that income from dividends to cover yearly expenses. How does that differ from MMM & co?

BTW - did you read him? http://earlyretirementextreme.com/ => pretty radical dude who lived on 7K per year. it's extreme and not for everyone, but then it's site's name warns you :slightly_smiling_face: I did like his book a lot in the way he thinks about things

When I typed that word I realized it could be interpreted as arrogant. I suppose I view it that way as a lot of people want $500k invested so they can live frugally, unmarried with no kids and not work.

To me that is not living.

Ah like that

yeah like ERE - 7K/y expenses eating lentils in an RV :slightly_smiling_face:

I respect how he's hardcore though :slightly_smiling_face:

I get you - it's what i wrote earlier, those sites always have the context of employees making if lucky 100k/y. It's harder for them to get to let's say a million

hence the bigger focus on frugality etc

those sites dont mention for example moving to a different country for frugality - can't really do htat unless location indepent business. Employee stuck where they are.

Sorry, had a call.

RE: income approach, it gets muddy because some people love dividends and other hate them. The purists seem to spruik only buying an SP index ETF and everything else is evil/irrational

And you're right - I am all for being frugal, but my version of frugal is moving to Andorra - better quality of life than most countries for half the price!

MMM has just one post afaik about moving to a different place for ER

don't even think ERE mentions it

it's so obvious, maybe because target audience can't deal with it

yeah I moved to BG, there's appartments for 300? here. I pay for mine more than the salary of a BG person here, but my thought was I'm not going to lower my quality of life. For same price as in BE I'm in a brand-new building in the center near metro and it's quiet

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@jase

where did you do this? LON and SGX stock exchanges

=> which broker did yo use for this?

LON and SGX

You can use any broker that will allow you to buy on those exchanges

which one did you use? curious

I'm seeing recommendations for saxobank and td direct for expats

Call me crazy but I keep a few things to myself still :slightly_smiling_face:

no need for an expat account

a trading account is a trading account IMO

saw this: http://expatfinance.net/building-an-expat-investment-portfolio

ok np

classic over complication. I am actually not sure of trading accounts that won't be opened for non-residents

maybe I've just been lucky

http://boom.hk used to be popular

ok

@jase what do you think of td direct luxembourg?

it grants access to ireland domiciled funds

multiple currency accounts

no fees except the ongoing charge which starts at 0.25% for vanguard stuff

I find that ongoing charge quite high, and the vanguard stuff is limited

this seems okay - http://lt.morningstar.com/j78r68ij2p/snapshot/snapshot.aspx?id=F0GBR04SKK&SecurityToken=F0GBR04SKK]2]1]FOEUR$ALL_2678 => but it's 0.30%/y which seems like a lot

how does that compare vs going with ocbc sg?

frankly prefer to not link myself with lux

seems like iocbc is 0.7% commission with minimum of 95USD on lse - seems quite a bit

Yeah iocbc is higher - you need to plan ahead. Not a huge issue for building assets, but I can see it being bad for balancing a portfolio. But hey, thats the game.

In the UK I like iShares, check them out too

ishares how?

they have lower expense ration than vanguard I saw before

ETFs

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Anyone have experience with tax optimized investments in Canada, Australia or New Zealand?

Typically "tax free investments" are usually terrible investments, but I figure the question is worth asking.

Withholding taxes usually hurt the potential for me

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If anyone's a sophisticated investor, this seems interesting: http://www.bartlettscreek.co.nz/

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Been reading about Cayman Islands property lately. 5-8% yields. Nothing crazy but in current global economy nothing to complain about.

No taxes but typically a 5% stamp duty on leases

Tourist accommodation at 10%

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FYI Thank you for your email. In situations where lenders do not reside in NZ, they are required to set up an account through either a Company or Trust. Both options can be selected here: https://investor.harmoney.com/signup/type There is also a set of Anti-money laundering (AML) requirements for each of these options and the details are outlined in the application form. Please note that you will also need an active New Zealand bank account. All taxes and fees are automatically deducted from your account and we ask you to provide the tax details as part of the account setup process. For more information on Non-Resident Withholding Tax (NRWT) rates, please see http://www.ird.govt.nz/nrwt/nrwt-payers/nrwt-payers.html#04 Hope this helps.

My money is on the Republic of Georgia. I have lived here now for over a year. When I first got here I thought 3 things: 1. It is a great place to live, 2. it is a great place to invest, and 3. it is a great place to start and run a local business. Well 2 out of 3 is not bad. Georgia is a great place to live and invest. Running a local business here is problematic. The rules are great, and the authorities are eager, but things are constantly changing. I am hoping that after the recent parliamentary elections things will calm down a bit. But there are great investments available. For as little as $10,000 you can get a darned good rate on a 1 year CD in foreign currency (7% to 8%). For a bit more you can negotiate. If you want to invest in real estate there are a lot of short term flipping opportunities due to how Georgians have to finance their apartment construction. In short there is no financing; everything has to be self-financed. So as a nice project is coming to completion the builder is usually looking to sell apartments at a substantial discount. I have a few of those in the works and I expect to get a quick 20% ROI. If you are ever interested in checking it out get in touch with me. I have some nice apartments I am renting out! :wink:

An interesting article on Georgia confirming my own opinion (we all like that!): http://www.valuewalk.com/2016/11/incredible-opportunities-hidden-corner-world/

@jase uploaded a file: https://freedomsurfer.slack.com/files/jase/F38BEGCV6/screenshot_20161201-010754.png

Is it a stable enough currency to consider?

I am not sure what you mean? Most transactions are priced USD. I would be cautious about putting your money in GEL investments, such as CDs. But on the other hand the GEL is at a historic low. If you invested $50,000 in a GEL CD, that would be about 125,000 GEL at 12% to 14%. Then if the GEL bounces back (like it did earlier in the year) you could make a very nice capital gains on the increase in the value compared to USD upon liquidation and conversion. However, everything else is priced in USD.

My investments have been in real estate and have increased substantially. I believe they will continue to do so at least for the next few years. There is a pent up demand for housing that is going to take awhile to satisfy.

Just realised you said foreign currency. Would they give 7-8% on USD deposits in Georgia?

yup?wanted to ask that same question?what other profitable financial investments are available?

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@jase yes. You don't even need to have a "friend" at the bank! That is the going rate. Again higher if you put a bit more in and go talk to the banker.

@stoplight there are a lot of valuable investments. Mostly in real estate, but more recently in tourist related projects due to incentives being offered by the government. The problem in Georgia is that there are plenty of 7 star hotels with rooms at $500 a night, and lots of hostels with rooms at $10 a night. But not a lot in between. The government wants to fill the gap by offering some very generous incentives to companies that establish appropriate tourist related operations.

But simply investing in a good apartment building can get you anywhere from 20% to 50% in one year depending upon final sale prices of units.

A friend and I intend to start a development company aimed at the mid-range tourist project, and we hope to offer listed bonds at 15%. That only sounds high when you don't take into account the various government incentives that drive down costs, defer or eliminate taxes, and guarantee a profit as long as the construction costs are kept under control.

Interesting proposition?thanks for the info..will study it further @alexanderhay ? @agalt also has mentioned the relative ease of getting residency and citizenship?that?s something I?m also interested in specially when Georgia gets EU waiver...

Interesting. Which is the safest bank in Georgia?

I think all the major banks are very safe. TBC & Bank of Georgia are the largest and best capitalized, but all of them are solid. I have not heard anything bad about any bank in Georgia other than issues of service.

Thanks @alexanderhay

Outside of your business, where are you investing?

@jase, real estate in Republic of Georgia, select stocks.

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Hello, Anyone have experience with large sums (>100k USD) invested in Peer to Peer lending? Especially Beehive, as no tax on gains apply, someone could quickly live off the interest.. where is the catch if any?

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@jase what's a good bond to invest in with worldwide exposure?

I'm looking for the equivalent of this: http://www.morningstar.nl/nl/funds/snapshot/snapshot.aspx?id=f0gbr04skk

@kl5340dc I'm really not an expert - I suppose what I'd ask is what is your risk profile? Are you looking for yield or safety?

that fund is for yield

so the bond with be for security

80/20

want to keep it simple with just two funds

if it's avialable through td direct lux even better

https://www.ishares.com/uk/individual/en/products/251753/ishares-global-government-bond-ucits-etf ?

Because of my setup usually I look on LSE

well I just saw this at td direct - http://lt.morningstar.com/j78r68ij2p/snapshot/default.aspx?tab=0&SecurityToken=F00000VIK1%5D2%5D1%5DFOEUR%24ALL_2678&Id=F00000VIK1&ClientFund=1&CurrencyId=BAS&CSRFTOKEN=

I can't really give much insight sorry - on face value the management fees are reasonable

thanks - seems all gov bonds,no corporate - on purpose?

Yes

Most people are looking for Gov

Corporate although able to provide significant yield can come with greater risk (and sometimes are not rated)

25%japan, for real?

welcome to the traditional world

I don't own any of that fund FYI :slightly_smiling_face:

heh, np

Actually, wrong currency - I'm in https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/IEML:LN

@kl5340dc I invest in Fundsmith and 7IM AAP adventurous, any reason to go gov over corp?

I thought diversifying gov and corp would make more sense

for sake of going broad

the vanguard thing I put there had both

Traditional theory I believe leans on the fact that governments are less likely to default than corporations

That's probably no longer true

Fundsmith seems no BS - good values @harvie

yeah, not trusting gov stuff, esp when 25% jp

:slightly_smiling_face:

Both Fundsmith and 7IM AAP Adventurous have been lucky to use the run up since the last crash though

@kl5340dc you're forgetting governments can print their way out of trouble though. There are currency concerns but it's probably still safest... for now

yeah

so gov 100% makes more sense since the stock fund is already corp stuff

that's your point basically?

That's the theory

I personally use EM bonds

emerging market?

yeah

more volatile, but I'm earning

but that goes against bonds being for security?

correct

I understand: stock for yield, bond for security

if everything tanks, I'll keep buying

you're okay with the risk then?

I wanted to do all stock , screw bonds

I consider myself to be in the asset accumulation phase

Some people do that for sure - IMO it's about personality

If you know you won't sell/won't need to sell, do it

right

but then I was thinking there's enough comiong in so I don't need to go that high risk just for more yield

I have cash on hand - if my business folded, shares/EMs shit the bed, I have cash

If you want something to weather most storms, check out the Permanent Portfolio too

Seriously though it's more personality than anything else

I read his book, thought it was outdated?

define outdated - there is more info available today, but in some ways the theory is better than ever, especially with the gold allocation

*opinion

If you want safe bonds you could look at Singapore Savings Bonds FYI

not sure what the coupon is nowadays but was reasonable for a fairly safe economy

seems too risky just going for one country

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VBMGX is a good total bond market index

AGG etf is another

yeah VBMGX

but need EU based

this seems to be simialr to vbmgx - http://lt.morningstar.com/j78r68ij2p/snapshot/default.aspx?tab=3&SecurityToken=F00000VIK1%5D2%5D1%5DFOEUR%24ALL_2678&Id=F00000VIK1&ClientFund=1&CurrencyId=BAS&CSRFTOKEN= => what you think? @scorps @jase

@kl5340dc I would be careful investing in bonds at the moment. Google "bond bubble"...

Seems similar. Can't see the % country breakdown.

I believe the rule is you shouldn't try to time the market

maybe bubble maybe not

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I have a frech trading account (carrying a loss). What?s best ? - keeping it as a non-resident ? - transfering it ? (how) - opening another one, selling everything and buying from the new one ?

@philippe Is your current broker good? (fees, execution, customer support etc)

it?s ok for France, I trade small volumes so far (individual stocks) but I plan to buy indexes in larger volume soon.

Most HK banks offer decent brokerage accounts as an addon to bank account holders. This could be an option. Otherwise you have the big discount brokers (IG, Interactive Brokers, Boom etc)

is it a good idea if my personal residency is in chile ?

and is there any risk to loose access to the funds?

No risk that I can think of, HK banks are heavily regulated and highly liquid.

not leaving there / being nomad? won?t be an issue

Not as far as the bank is concerned. HK banks are quite used to dealing with expats and long-term travelers.

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When it comes to buying on stock exchanges, is there any benefit to diversifying between brokerage accounts if you are intending on purchasing the same companies/etfs/etc?

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@jase No, not for stock trading. Only for unregulated markets such as forex.

Thanks @simon. Possibly at some stage I will split them so I can buy locally for cheaper brokerage.

But good to know there's no "risk" with one brokerage

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Anyone know of a P2P Lending ETF?

If not, it would be awesome for diversification

hey @jase I am doing some testing with MoneyFarm at the moment, it is more of a set and forget ETF but easy to use https://www.moneyfarm.com/uk/general-investment/

Cheers @rjmarsden - I manage my portfolio myself - if you're looking for something hands off those fees seem reasonable though!

@jase no worries. I use AJ Bell myself here in the UK for some of the investments I manage myself, I've searched their ETF's and can't find a PSP related one though :slightly_smiling_face:

I agree it would be a very ethical option rather than investing in all the P2P lenders directly themselves

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TD Direct Lux are a nightmare

background checks for everything, now again after wiring in a sum from other account. German mindset is strong in them. All those checks are turning me off of putting my money with them. Threating customers like they're thiefs/scammers almost

I get the impression that Charles Schwab in the USA is easier to deal with, but I have a citizen/resident account.

http://Boom.hk not suitable @kl5340dc ? Haven't used them myself but I've heard they are pretty laid back.

I liked the fee structure of td direct, just 0.25% and done. what do you think?

also thought not putting everything in hk - biz is already there, thought diversifying countries better

ah yes, if you have the company there i understand @kl5340dc

How about Australia for a trading account?

Or Canada

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I suppose they're going to be like lux

why do you recommend can/au?

#####

i would like to setup some sort of "pension plan" through my company. Basically have it auto invest in index funds each month.

The investment would remain property of the company, not me. So i can keep paying myself a lower salary and avoid being taxed on that more, while the company invest it for me, making it available later when I need it (as a dividend then?)

Anything bad about doing it this way? am I right that I'd avoid being taxed on this investment as it would not fall under personal income since it's owned and invested by biz?

I figure best would be to setup a separate company specifically for that, an investment company. The company making the profits would then pay the company investing them.

Don't necessarily recommend Can/Aus but I figure developed countries typically have good systems in place. If Singapore/HK are out of the question they could be worth looking at.

Is any one investing in physical gold or silver?

Yes.

Any experience with crossing a border with precious metals?

No problems myself but I am very cautious. Depending upon where you are coming from and where you are going, and how much you have you have to be very cautious. It goes beyond merely declaring it. In Panama they tend to seize the assets claiming anything in specie is suspicious and evidence of money laundering, particularly if you are flying from the USA, then you have to spend a lot of money on lawyers to try to get it back. I have been discussing with friends setting up a reasonably priced storage system but finding the right place is tough. Belize decided they wanted nothing to do with such a repository as it would likely make Uncle Obama unhappy. Perhaps Uncle Donald will be friendlier? Don't know if I would want to invest in that sort of system. What happens in 4 years?

Canada to Europe. I am wondering whether it is easier to cross the border with physical metals, ship it or even sell in Canada and re-buy in Europe... Storage is also a big puzzle for me. I'd like to stay away from a traditional bank vault.

Switzerland was the big go-to location for storing precious metals, and they are still safe and sound, but no longer as friendly as before. There are some very good repositories in Germany and as long as you are not from the USA you are probably ok. Again, depends upon how much you are carrying and to where. I have heard nothing bad from Europe. But that may be my ignorance more than anything. I once had a client who offered an interesting service. He bought and delivered gold to your repository vault in Germany. You never touched anything.

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I buy from Bullion Vault, this might be an easier option for you @alex?

Thanks @harvie! Bullion Vault is an interesting option.

@alex I'm yet to try it but Bullion Vault is also on my list. Has good reviews from everyone I know.

Don't have any worthwhile physical but I've traveled with a couple of coins in my wallet (paranoia, SHTF, testing airport security), mixed in with some other change and has never been a problem

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Bitcoin dropped to 770~, good time to grab a few or is it going even lower? (I don't follow news)

Nah, not playing with Bitcoin anymore. I?m playing with Etherium now :wink:

Etherium? Please tell more :slightly_smiling_face:

@rjmarsden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethereum <? good read to start off. It has a second capitalisation after Bitcoin in crypto currencies. Nowadays you can call Bitcoin very conservative regarding new features, they barely use posibilities of blockchain. But Etherium is moving really fast with building new features, some think that they are moving too fast even. Etherium is not just a currency, it offers also other pack of features ?

Trading volume with ETH is not that big, so there are no crazy fluctuations as with Bitcoing

For lazy ass traders like it?s perfect, i don?t sit everyday watching those graphs

But it?s a good moment to buy in for a long term. ETH are on the all time low and slowly climbing up

@skat uploaded a file: https://freedomsurfer.slack.com/files/skat/F3QMBVBUM/screen_shot_2017-01-12_at_20.28.12.png

That bottom blue bar shows monthly

3 months ago, you could by ETH for almost 11 euro

Before new years a bought a bunch for 7.6 euro

now avarage price is 8.8 euro

So, I bought a bunch for couple of years. And half of them a lazily trade weekly, trying to catch those fluctuations.

Then i started i did 3500 Euro in two days. Got a bit too much excited about it.

But now i try to chill out a bit, doing my long term game. I do approximately 500 euro a week with it.

But it?s very lazy trading, i could do much more if i was sitting with it daily.

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Very interesting article from a guy who lives very pretty cheap, but managed to buy properties across the globe to feel at home everywhere. http://tynan.com/empire

Interesting!

There's a similar thread by "Global Wealth" on The Fastlane Forum @skat

May be of interest

FYI @skat: https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/live-rent-free-in-multiple-countries.59964/page-9#post-585527

@jase thanks for a link, very interesting forum didn't heard about it before

We thought a lot about this but we decided it was distracting and we prefer to focus on our main business

yeah

invest in stocks and focus on biz instead. managing real estate seems like a pain just from my experiencing renting and see what home owners had to go through, and ti thnk of mysel fas easy renter paying on time tec

While I agree @kl5340dc, if you are going to buy a place to spend a certain portion of the year, may as well get some income the rest of the year round.

yes but it seems like this can create problems with tax residency = as you are setting up vital interests in that country now

another reason why I decided against

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No reason for it to create tax residency issues unless you're there for a seriously extended period of time.

Of course to make that legit you need to declare the income as tax - it needs to be an investment

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OK, a tricky question. How does one go about valuation of a company that does not turn a profit, but has a serious amount of system/product development and marketing foundation built?

Physical products have been designs, brand has traction, sales are coming in but the company is breaking even after paying for 2 co-founders, 1 full time admin staffer and 1 part-time accountant.

Difficult when it comes to startups with no profits and mostly intangible assets. Main criteria I would look at is how good the co-founders are. Are they all in with no other projects/job on the side? Have they put up their own money or instead using debt? Are they smart individuals that truly have a passion for what they are doing? How quick are there sales growing and is the industry promising to afford equal growth spurts in the future? Keeping costs under control?What is the intensity of the competition amongst existing players in the industry? Are their threats of substitute Products or Services? I know these are all non tangible criteria's but think they are key to have answers to.

As a quick pass filter, you can use the 40% rule: (Annual revenue growth rate + operating margin) >=40%. I.e. If the company has a -10% operating margin then expect a 50% revenue growth.

Thanks @scorps, that's a good start. I'm a believer in the brand/products, which I figure is a good sign (although it doesn't help with valuation). It's likely I'd invest in a way that compliments their knowledge. Both co-founders are in for the long haul, absolutely passionate about the products and one other investor is famous in the industry, so it's good to have that sort of exposure available.

All the better if you can add value beyond what the founders currently bring to the table.

Yeah, I'm just unsure how that is done in the real world. In a real company - if I'm investing and say I'm offering 5+ hours per week, should I be getting paid for that? Advice I'm happy with but I don't want to be in one of those situations where "the company is turning a profit", but a key staffer isn't on the books

It depends on the deal but good to raise it up with them and set expectations from the beginning. Maybe your time can be converted into more shares instead of receiving a part time salary if you prefer. Find out what the salary structure is for the founders and anyone else that has skin in the game.

Thanks @scorps.

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So what's our feeling, Brexit going to hurt the GBP/UK stocks more? Or this is all going to blow over...?

I'm too scared to think about it, I don't think the markets will be the worse part of it though. That being said I am moving half of my investments out of the UK, as well as getting a second residency just in case.

Good call @rjmarsden. Never been a better time to be location independent IMO

I do feel like this is one of those "crisis investing" opportunities, I'm just not sure if the true crisis has began yet :confused:

apart from the devaluing of sterling, the knock-on of Brexit hasn't been too bad on the investments, they have recovered from the initial dip and progressed. What I would say is that I'm already in the UK market so not much I can do other than mitigate, but for those not in the UK markets yet I would tread very carefully, as your correct @jase, we don't know if the true crisis has begun yet.

Will you continue to use UK funds @rjmarsden? Their non-resident withholding tax is nice if you can find a fund that is investing outside of the region

I am continuing with sterling funds for now, but the bulk of the investment is outside of the region. I agree the non-resident witholding tax is quite good and I might look at it when the Irish passport / residency comes into play in a year or so.

I have no idea where the UK is heading, maybe we'll know more in the next 6 months. All my investments are in GBP though as they are tax-free but it allows me to buy stocks and commodities outside the UK too.

FYI there are funds on the LSE that are in different currencies. I only hold one in GBP

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yeah I can buy in USD and EUR, just so happens all my funds are in GBP, my platform also doesn't let me hold multi-currency which is annoying

Ah, damn. I pay plenty in brokerage but it's nice to have that luxury.

It's not a problem now (I need to make large order to make it worthwhile), but rebalancing later might be expensive

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@alexanderhay uploaded a file: https://freedomsurfer.slack.com/files/alexanderhay/F4459E9DH/proposal_fish_farm.pdf and commented: A project we are working on in the Republic of Georgia.

@alexanderhay why aren?t your growing weed in Georgia ?:)~

@skat not my thing.

Looking to invest in a few funds in Latin America, Asia and India. Anyone have any suggestions so I can go ahead and do some research. Been looking VT Price Value and FEET . Wondering if anyone else here has funds in these locations?

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@alexanderhay uploaded a file: https://freedomsurfer.slack.com/files/alexanderhay/F4FAM74BE/proposal_fish_farm.pdf and commented: I have been thinking about investing in some fish farms here in the Republic of Georgia. 10 years ago they were very profitable and valuable. However, the primary market was Russia, and to a lesser extent Armenia and Azerbaijan. One of the real advantages of Georgia is the incredible amount of fresh clean water available. Most of these farms are ready to be started again with little more than "add water" and of course fish. Here is a sample proposal for one of the better fish farms available. There are others that are more affordable, but may not offer the advantage of a tourist business combo.

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Interesting strategy. 30% seems very conservative, but I'm no expert.

Those Ethers grow like crazy

Luckly I have some

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Anyone investigated investing in Revolut?

@jase investing in a revolut? Is it a pre paid card?

@jase I saw the premium membership offer. The travel insurance seems limited to me. I will stick to the standard for now, so no chance of investing. I didn?t check out the investing itself.

Yeah i didn't look any further. Interesting that they present investing as a product with benefits rather than an investment with returns. I assume it's a terrible investment as a result. Happy to be proven wrong of course.

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Hey guys, I'm looking for an email alert list or an iphone app that updates me right away when top investors (Buffett, Icahn) make a stock trade. Concept would be to follow the top gurus. So far except for ibillionaire (which I didn't like) I haven't found a tool for this. Have any of you found this?

isn?t there usually a big delay(like several months) between the time they trade/invest and between the time that this information is available to the public by way of their mandatory filings?(I suppose any app that does this would rely on this public filings for this info)

Not sure how much delay exists but strategy of following Warren Buffett's lead has worked wonders for me in the past. What Bershire is trading is public info on the web, but I want a notification system rather than having to check it manually on google periodically (I'm a lazy bastard). I'd also like to add other successful billionaire investors' trades .. Surely there is something out there..

I think there?s a big delay in that to. Perhaps it?s possible on websites like this http://www.gurufocus.com/ListGuru.php with a premium account.

I do the same, buy what he buys that has gone down in price

+ load up on FB & AAPL

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thanks for that @danz

What type of investing are most people here interested in?

@alexanderhay stocks, possibly cryptocurrencies. Suggestions for US brokers that will accept a pass through LLC?

Long term lifetime income generating assets.

Charles Schwab used to allow it. I have not tried in awhile. The problem is that even if you open the account they no longer offer the same services: visa debit cards with international fees waived.

I have been successfully investing in stocks for most of my life. I am now looking to diversify away from stocks, not totally abandon them. I am investing in tourist and agricultural projects in Georgia.

Yeah that's probably the route I'm going to take. I've been investing (stocks/bonds) fairly hard this last few years with a view to invest in more of my own projects as I can now afford the risk.

Probably reasonable to assume I'll partner with someone for hotel/vacation rental in future. There's a big project I have in mind but we'd need a heap of private funding.

Stocks and mostly cryptocurrencies for me at this moment

That is the same problem I am facing. There are so many opportunities here in Georgia, and all my investments so far have done great, but I don't have enough money myself to proceed on the bigger ones. I would like to form some sort of self-funded venture fund/club, but no one seems interested.

I think it's a big hurdle to jump into. You need a pool of very wealthy (so they can diversify and avoid the risk of private investments), open minded people

I've had my eye on these guys for years. They are doing a really great job of it all: http://simplynaturalinvestments.com/

@alexanderhay, in my point of view airbnb market in Bulgaria will rapidly go up. All started with lowcosts flights to Sofia. The city is full with tourist, arriving for a couple of days with flight for 5euro. These type of people are keen on airbnb, they are not staying in spa hotels. I think there is good potential in this type of investment - real estate purchase plus marketing on airbnb, similar platforms.

Check this out for investor documentation: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lemqotjze24j95e/SN-AVOCADO%20brochure-Lipkin.pdf?dl=0

@globalconsulteurope That is one area I have invested in Tbilisi. I bought the basement apartments underneath my apartment for next to nothing. Then renovated them to top notch status after my neighborhood was heavily improved by the government. I opened the apartments Feb 1, 2017, and they have been full ever since.

I have also invested in an "unbuilt" apartment that should be completed very soon. I expect at least 20% profit on a 8 month investment. Right now I am working on a slightly larger investment in agriculture here. But there are some very nice opportunities that will require more money. The government will essentially give you the land and develop the roads and utilities if you agree to make a certain investment in mid-level tourist properties outside of Tbilisi. The opportunities are everywhere. Even inside Tbilisi there are a lot of opportunities; there are plenty of $500 a night hotel rooms and a lot of $10 a night hostels that you share with 8 guys from Uzbechistan, but not a lot of $25 to $80 a night rooms. Outside of Tbilisi it is even worse, and the demand is huge.

Another place to add to the list and check out @alexanderhay!

@jase let me know when you are coming over!

I found an interesting parcel of land in Kakheti (the biggest wine growing and agricultural region in Georgia). 110 hectares, extremely expensive irrigation pipe in place, irrigation lines running from the pipe with existing 2 meter tall industrial sprinklers throughout the property. Ready to go today. $350,000 USD. This is about 3k from where my farm is located. You are essentially paying for the irrigation system and getting the land for free, or vice-versa.

I wish I had the money!

How about management of the farm?

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We're invested in ICFC and Peini Cacao consortium. Received our first payment last year. Hopefully it grows over time. Still in talks about using it for friendly nations visa in Panama

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@johncitizen very interesting. Reminds me of the Simply Natural project. Did your payment make the 11% return? What risks did you identify/process/accept? Did you visit before investing?

I've always found the land title a bit... invaluable. Unless it has access rights over the adjacent properties or is located on the outside, I assume there's not a lot of benefit to having your name on the title.

Agreed Jase, nowhere near 11% yet.

I have a handle on something else which is 9-12% pa returns.

Nice!

Are you confident in the investment?

Kudos for having the faith!

I hope the agricultural investments grow and come good

The other investment I know a bit about, others had formed a syndicate which has been running two years. I hoped to copy their model with my own syndicate.

Keep us posted @johncitizen, I'd be interested to hear more about it. It's definitely a dream of mine to do similar. I've always wanted to run some sort of farmstay accommodation with an agriculture component. Diversified income sources depending on the economic environment...

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About SMC (follow-up from #citizenship discussion), anyone has experience with their products "Price Value International" or "4th Pillar Investment Alert Service"?

Both

PVI seems like a good news letter for story telling, they've had a few ballpark hits but a lot of misses.

It's view is Long term holds

And it's only a few years old so I can't judge it based on such a short time frame

4th pillar has been phenomenal. I paid for life membership and it paid itself off and made good profits in under a year. My portfolio is around 100k, so I can only comment based on that. Life membership was around $3,500 when I signed up.

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@johncitizen Self directed with BOOM or going with a broker? I'm doing 4th pillar self-directed started 3-4 months ago- no home runs yet but in for the long term

Self directed

Last few months have been bad, bad calls on shares that never meet buy price, last year was good, we made good profits.

?10,000 up for grabs in Estonia, get involved.

mysteir: can you please explain this to me @mysteir ? What is self directed? Is BOOM the HK broker?

They are a elf-directed brokerage firm out of HK that allow trades in most Asian markets covered by 4th Pillar. It was either them or going with a full service broker which had much higher fees.

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Latest trade is an NZ one, an a non-resident Australian I'm having a hard item finding an NZ broker without visiting in person

*will visit in person in July to Auckland or Queenstown for a weekend*

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Yeah I didn't get in on that one because it seems too complicated. :slightly_smiling_face: Did the Malaysian one though have to pay extra fees for it

Not fussed about fees, I'm up 14% on that trade so far :)

Very nice... 14% is solid. I'm looking forward to recommendations that aren't so damn difficult (malaysia or NZ).. keep money in BOOM and plan to buy into all the recs. What brokerage do you use to buy most recs?

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ANZ (formerly e*trade Australia). The recs are slowly shying away from Australian companies which is good. I'm about 60% in ANZ and 40% in Boom now

May be an interesting list for some: https://www.highdividendyieldetf.com/domicile/ie/1.html

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pedrodemendez: The place already sold. At a very good price. And we will be providing some services to the buyer. At least I hope so. It will be mutually beneficial.

Well the agricultural real estate market has started to boom lately in Georgia. I suspect the government will do something to screw it up. Like blocking foreign investors from buying agricultural land. If you are interested I suggest you make quick trip to Georgia and find a farm. The prices are still very low.

@alexanderhay how low exactly?

I bought a little under 100 hectares of prime land ideal for walnuts for under $3000 each hectare.

I have seen cheaper and more expensive.

Depends upon location, access to ester, electric, gas, etc. Also development potential.

How much time do you spend on the walnut business @alexanderhay :slightly_smiling_face:. How many people work there?

Or, no walnuts, just "ideal land" at this stage?

@pragmatic I bought the land (with a few partners) a little less than a month ago. We will be planting the walnuts in the late fall. Along with a few other crops depending upon further study. We have two people working full time on various jobs like building fences. etc. We just finished drilling a water well. Bought a container that was built out to be a full time residence for the workers. Getting a large tractor, building a storage shed, etc. etc. etc. Me? I am hoping they will let me drive the tractor now and then.

That Texan blood in you still boils

There is so much opportunity in Georgia. It makes me both sad and happy that the Georgians don't see it. They are selling their inheritance for pennies to the dollar so that they can "escape" the hell that is Georgia and go work as a slave or worse in NYC, LA, Berlin, etc. Sad for them, happy for me and others like me who see the potential.

@alexanderhay Don?t forget that most of ex-USSR countries don?t really work ?by the books?, you may end up having some surprises :wink: But still wish you luck with it

Georgia is very different from the other ex-Soviet states. There is no corruption. There is no expropriation. Knowing people always helps, and one of my partners is a Georgian that should help with that, but it is not a place where you HAVE to have certain people along. After all it is not as corrupt as the USSA or the EU.

Shall we start our own sovereign valley 2.0

Galts gulch 2.0

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Anyone in our community doing something like this? https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/live-rent-free-in-multiple-countries.59964/

Very very very interesting, thanks for sharing @jase

I have been wanting to do this for years now. Can't pull the trigger. Worried of hassle and being on the other side of the world

It has piqued my curiosity like no other thing. Maybe I'll do it :)

I planned to have a house on a coastline by 2020. I am negotiate as to where that is ha

Cool!

Maybe in Colombia?

I've been dreaming of this exact setup for about a year now. Time to start a mastermind group?

Could be keen

I'd be interested in some sort of entity that purchased and managed properties in this manner

Colombia seems to be a top contender

@jase a couple of years ago I listened to one of Ryan Daniel Moran's Freedom Fastlane podcast talking about the very same thing, and it blew me away.

@maxsuur a property management company?

Yeah, something like that. You buy they house, they take care of the rest.

Yeah property management companies are nothing new. Have been around forever. Many property owners who own several places in one place use them. Usually they are for long term rents. But I do see many bnb type managers popping up on classified sites too.

Usually PM companies do everything a-z, which is great. They find and vet tenants, do repairs (with your authorization and you pay for it, of course) and basically take care of all communication.

Of course, there are different arrangements where you can do a part too.

Agreed @brian, or they don't understand the (cleanliness) standards that many travelers expect.

I was more talking about a property investment portfolio owned by multiple owners in different corners of the world. I read a post on it a while back, looked like an interesting story.

Anyone have thoughts on the MSCI Frontier Emerging Markets (FEM) Index - can MSCI track smaller markets like Frontiers correctly?

> In many countries ?property management companies? are prohibitively expensive and eat up too much of your profits. I look at it more like a balance between headaches and money. If you have extra time and mental capacity to deal with tenants, repairs, and other menial tasks, then by all means go ahead. Some people choose to outsource the whole thing though. Depending on markets, it might still be profitable.

@alexanderhay - what are property taxes like in Georgia for ag land?

@mescos almost nothing.

No that is the income tax on agriculture profits. But in reality its zero. Particularly if you form a coop. The property tax is very very low. Almost nothing.

Last property manager I had in Australia charged 5% and did a reasonable job.

Fair exchange for my doing almost nothing

That's 5% of my 9% net annualised profits.

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Anyone have tips on how to structure a private loan? Most importantly, around calculation of interest/repayments.

Structure as in the best way to draw up the contract/agreement/

I understand interest fairly well from a "consumer" point of view, but I'm interested in the considerations from the lender's point of view

In this scenario I'm personally lending to a company I'm in control of, so I'm not too concerned on getting screwed

Purpose is to get the company off of the ground

Andorra

Yeah that's easy - 4 or 5 percent is fine

I'm hoping to keep it very simple, I'm thinking compounded annually is best

I guess I'm trying to cover all bases - who knows, the company could sell at some stage

Cool

Why lend money

rather than invest into it?

That and I'm not the only shareholder

noted, thanks

anyone else dabbling in cryptocurrencies?

#bitcoin

oh boy

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Yeah, I'm holding bits of everything

I'm not at retirement level from it, but I've done well out of it.

You need to dig into altcoins and icos now to make money

Or sell mining rigs

Is there even money in mining anymore?

No money in mining unless shitty subpenny coins

Which are not worth it anyway

But damn ether is such a gold mine

Altough it might make bitcoin fall from power

Gold mine for mining? Or something else?

just going up in value

skyrocketed this year

up from around $10 to $400

ah yeah, so need to have held them already

Bought them at around 15 lucky enough

Same, my experiences mining were never too positive

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I just got and hold back in 2013

Still not sure when I will sell

Hello friends. I'm looking for some advice/direction. I came across an online video on starting out investing. He suggested that if you don't have too much then you can take more risk starting out. His suggestion was to first start with an emergency fund (which I have), then once you're stable, take that put it into investments. He put his money into the stock market to grow his initial funds. The approach made sense (Given one's particular risk appetite) and struck a chord with me. I have ~5K in my emergency fund. I was thinking about putting it into some vanguard mutual funds, but not sure about taxes and liquidity. Any thoughts on this?

Anyone invested in Lithium company stocks? The demand will increase hugely the next couple years because of the electronic cars industry with companies as Tesla. The biggest suppliers can?t even deliver the demand that is being asked, so I believe some stocks will easily increase 2x-3x the next couple years.

Interesting

@ahawkins when I started out I set aside the money needed for living 6 months. Then I let the emergencyfund grow as I went along

Also I like to have multiple income streams

These are the foundation, then invest with cash flow from your income streams (or your extra savings if you have those next to emergencyfund)

My only strategy has been that of holding crypto long term, but I may want to dip into trading. Any good materials out of there for the matter?

*educational ones

I am not an active trader, but am using elliot wave theory and some indicators to find point on where to enter of exit. Don't have a source from the top of my head. I picked up bits and pieces along the time.... I like the social mood part of elliot wave. As indicators I use OBV to see if there is accumulation of dumping going on. Other indicators BB, RSI, MACD, AO.

Glenn Neely on youtube

Interesting point about Tesla @danz . did you know that Tesla are building the worlds largest lithium battery production facility to meet their own needs? I can't remember the exact stats, but they plan on doubling (or maybe even trebling) the TOTAL worlds production of lithium batteries. I only mention this because it could potentially play against your theory.

Yes, and that still won?t be enough yet

And it?s not only Tesla who needs it, basically ever car company is building an electronic car now

Maxsuur I have been Forex trading for a bit over a year full time now. My only piece of advice would be that you should know it is an extrenely long process requiring a lot of effort and almost inhuman amounts of self discipline. It is not as easy as most internet marketers want you to think. I made that mistake enough times to know!! If you are one of the extremely lucky few who have the psychological makeup of a successful day trader already, then you could be making consistent profits within a year. It is much more likely to take 3-5. Of course this depends on your definition of trading. I am talking about the type of trading where you are in and out of a trade anywhere from 5 minutes to a couole of weeks. If you are talking about longer term holds, its more the investing/position trading realm.

I spent a year trying to find appropriate and real trading education. Eventually I was lucky enough to stumble upon http://www.infinite-prosperity.com

They have a couple of free lessons you can take. Which will give you a much better idea of what is involved in the learning process, what trading actually is, and whether it is something you are willing to dig deep into.

It is the only online education system I have found that has any sense of the true reality of being a trader.

Good luck

Thanks @evl4r and @pedrodemendez for the tips. I will take a look at the resources you guys have mentioned.

Thanks gents.

I'm heavily invested in traditional shares and make reasonable earnings, however I'm wanting to diversify more.

How much did you both start with in forex?

Would you recommend a sandbox for trading for a while first?

As long as you're comfortable with the time commitment. Its a lot less passive than traditional investing. I honestly think all of your questions http://will.be answered by taking the first two free lessons on the course j mentioned above. They'll answer far better than I can!

I started out with Demo accounts. To learn the ropes. And then I used a 2k account of my own. They are two completely different ball games. Demo accounts are awesome for getting used to how the platforms work, but beyond that, the psychological aspect of trading real money makes demo accounts pretty obsolete.

Also keep in mind your lifestyle and/or traveling schedule. You don't want to end up in El Nido Palawan during a brownout with a bunch of short term trading positions open

Simple, only move when positions are closed, own a satellite phone/3g modem and keep everything charged.

And always keep a physical note of your brokers phone number. Make a personal contact with your brokerage firm, have their direct number. Then if internet goes down, you find a way to get to a phone and manage positions accordingly.

Of course. You will also have stop losses on every position to manage your risk, or you are asking for trouble.

Hey guys... I keep ban accounts and cash in Hong Kong but the money just sits there. Outside of investing in the stockmarket (which I do), how can this money be easily and passively invested in HK? Other jurisdictions have high interest ban accounts, peer to peer lending platforms etc... what can be done to grow idle cash in HK (keeping in mind I am not a HK resident)? @simon ?

@mysteir http://boom.hk is an ok platform in Hong Kong for trading.

@johncitizen I use Boom for investing in the stockmarket. Looking for other passive ways to grow stagnant cash without having to send it out of HK. Bank time deposit and interest rates are really low in HK comparative to other jurisdictions.

It's hard in HK, I wouldn't be keen on real estate or a business as the clock is ticking for it's reign as a mostly free jurisdiction.

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@mysteir why do you need to keep the cash in HK?

@sdfk787 It's where my business money gets funnelled to. Mostly a question of convenience (no need to make repetitive wires out and get 1001 questions by the bank). Banks consider everyone a terrorist these days and it's driving me batty. Also, I like HK as a good safe jurisdiction to park cash. Fiscally responsible and debt free. Only problem is their interest rates are absolute garbage. No sure which mechanisms I can use to passively grow cash there.

@mysteir I don't know if you need an HKID for that but many of the HK banks can allow you to invest in domestic Chinese products (stocks, bonds etc). I don't know about your risk appetite but there's good money to be made there (if you are comfortable with the current situation in China).

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yes they suggested me investments in china related stuff back in november. Money blocked for x years but returns was quite nice. Can't remember. Didn't trust it much, prefer to stick with index funds diversified internationally

investing from singapore is easier, and it's not too hard to open account. Just open ocbc investment acocunt first and you got the personal setup. 5k deposit or something

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hmmm interesting.. I have access to China stockmarket through BOOM (HK self directed brokerage firm), but their fees on dividends bother me. Currently also use Interactive brokers in the USA (much lower fees). Nobody aware of any high interest bank account rates anywhere in HK>

?

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I have discovered a lovely building in the center of Tbilisi off Rustaveli. It is not listed and is being sold privately. If you are interested in investing please contact me and I will give you more information.

Venezuela is in the shits?but hunger bonds are being sold?making money out of the misery of other people?well?it?s a good proposition if you can handle it?. https://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenrwald/2017/06/01/why-goldman-sachs-just-made-an-embarrassing-bet-on-venezuela/#30dd260d4f85

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Venezuela needs money to keep producing oil. They have so mismanaged their finances that they need to borrow money to get their oil production back up and running. And people are blaming a bank who lends them money, quite unwisely if you ask me. I guess it would be better just to let them starve.

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Does anyone here have an opinion on the potential upcoming bond crisis? I keep hearing about it for the last little while. Wondering if it?s just doomsday-ers or is there a real merit to it? Looking at numbers, it looks and feels real, but I am not an economist, so it?s difficult to judge these things. Would love to hear from true experts. Thanks.

If it is to happen, then I feel we are inching closer. Canada is about to raise the rates on Wednesday. Probably by just 0.25%, but it?s just the beginning. Predictions are not good. Many people in Toronto and Vancouver area have mortgages hovering around CAD$1M. And on the recent survey, average Canadian is spending 75% on paying for ?roof over the head? (mortgage + condo fees + other expenses related to that). Scary stats?

@roman Feels like the next crash will be worse than 2008. Gold and crypto will be the assets to own when the tsunami hits.

Here's a quote from a friend

Always amazes me how similar Canada and Australia are economically

Except in Canada (Toronto, specifically), the foreign buyers are a small percentage (< 5%), but the government doesn?t care and they still added the foreign buyer tax, as if they are trying to solve the problem. However, they are not addressing the real problem. The real problem is that capital is too cheap and local people are speculating and taking on massive risk. Local speculators have inflated the market without a doubt.

Everyday he promotes a new ?tip?

If he would invest in his own recommendations, he would be the richest men alive.

selling shovels.......

I actually unsubscribed to his crap ages ago?hahahah?

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Anyone read 80/20 Investing? Worthwhile? https://www.amazon.com/80-Investor-Investing-Uncertain-Principle-ebook/dp/B01C8DT4IK

no idea @jase

but this 80/20 book is finger lickin' good :slightly_smiling_face: https://www.amazon.com/80-20-Sales-Marketing-Definitive/dp/1599185059/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1500380628&sr=8-1&keywords=perry+marshall

I think I've read that one

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anyone already have access to this? http://freetrade.io?kid=EBEAJ

same as robin hood, but uk based

well, that's pretty much one of the innumerable applications that the blockchain is capable of

so how do they make money? mark up?

damn, that book is still on my list. But front-running retail traders? can they make money with that?

I remember that hilarious interview in CNBC. That made me want to read the book.

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If i send money from my thai bank to interactive brokers (registered to my thai address) all private accounts, invest the money and eventually take that money out, what does interactive brokers report to whom etc?

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@alex1 to whichever tax country you put in your account details, if they do authorize it from the platform perspective,? in this case i think only to thai government

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@alex1 I do the same - pretty sure they will charge you a withholding tax on your dividends (15% as per USA-Thailand tax treaty). The US takes their cut right away at the source on dividends. In terms of your profits, that's your responsibility to declare them to the Thai government (assuming you are a tax resident). I don't think there's any "reporting" going on, although I could be wrong. Legally I guess you'd have to declare your "capital gains" and get taxed once you remit those gains to Thailand (your country of residency). Perhaps keeping that income abroad is a better strategy.

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Are there any bitcoin/ethereum miners here? I want to start my own mining operation?is it still profitable? And what are your thoughts on Genesis Mining and other similar cloud miners.

What would be a good historical BTC rate API? I would love to know 1 day, week, month and 1 year ago rates.

@fish coinmarketcap

has all the data you need

another one is coincap but slightly worse

@stoplight mining is only worth for small altcoins, not the big ones

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I use http://kraken.com. First because they have the best charts tool I could find. It's very good with the type of orders available.

anybody here has an US E*trade account? Support is unable to provide me with the account number of E*Trade at Wells Fargo. They say that E*Trade does not have one but SWIFT needs it. Confused ...

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thanks @aka ? :disappointed:

:slightly_smiling_face:

You can try lending

Look at http://cryptolend.net to compare current rates

And try to get a bot doing all the lending for you

But platforms are prone to problems

Thanks thanks! Now all I need is another brain for the extra technical knowledge I don?t know?hahaha.. :smile:

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in regard to my own E*Trade question, specifying your own "brokerage account number" as "beneficiary bank account number" worked fine. I also put the number into the SWIFT information field just to be sure. Wells Fargo takes a 25$ cut though. The money was credited the same day which is something I experienced for the first time.

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Anyone has experience of buying real estate, renovating it and listing it on Airbnb?

@danz Yes. I am doing this in Tbilisi, Georgia.

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I found this while looking for something else (a way of creating your own crypto currency to cover alternative but real asset investments): https://www.brickblock.io

Another interesting item: http://uk.businessinsider.com/startup-working-on-a-real-estate-backed-cryptocurrency-2017-6?r=US&IR=T

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What strategy are others using here to sell crypto in a tax efficient way? Ideally, I want to manage asset allocation properly and sell some crypto and invest it elsewhere. Thoughts?

buy gold with it from http://bullionstar.com

ah, pay via Bitcoin. Not a bad idea, cheers

ya, when I checked a few months ago they charged around 7.5% premium for taking bitcoin, plus around 1-3% for gold

Yeah, I can see that now. Why buillionstar over bullionvault?

no reason, I didn't know about bullionvault at the time

Looks like bullionvault holds the gold for you? And to get it they will ship to your registered address? With bullionstar you are able to walk into their store and pick up the gold easily

and can you buy gold directly with the bitcoin from bullionvault? Or do you have to convert to cash first?

Honestly I'd look for someone so you can bank crypto returns to silver, they hold it for you, then when the GSR flips you can sell the silver and buy gold inhouse

Some bullion dealers will do things like that for you.

Also I'm hoping to find companies that sell royalty rights and accept crypto payments.

An interesting article. I don't agree with his ultimate conclusion (buy an index fund and don't invest in stocks), but the issue of the dangers of the "monkey mind" guiding your investment policies is accurate. My take: if you are unable to manage your monkey mind then just set aside a certain amount of income every payday and invest it in index funds, but if you are willing to exercise your non-emotional intellect and feed it facts and knowledge then you can beat not only those investing with their monkey mind in control but also the index funds. https://medium.com/personal-finance-series-by-richard-reis/your-monkey-mind-is-a-halfwitted-investor-ignore-it-418368e08465

Or just invest in a robo advisor )

probably worse than a index fund.

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Following on from @tkrunning 's post about Bogle's book on index investing... I have been looking this lately as someone that is aggressive into stocks for retail investments. No bonds. I feel as though I know why selling as prices drop is bad but everyone says "you don't know how you will act until it happens".

But bonds barely make sense, either they make a negative return today or as interest rates go up the value of the bond (or units in a bond ETF) will drop.

That and, when you are location independent, what currency is most important. I spend mostly in EUR but can't guarantee that is forever. I foresee Asia Pacific Life in my future.

So, 2 questions: 1. Do you own bonds to ride out any market drops? Or are you all in on stocks? 2. In what currencies should a nomadic individual own bonds? A basket of currencies and sort of hedge your future?

3. cash

crypto

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Cash still has an issue: what currency Crypto has an issue: usage :joy:

Do you guys really have a core position in crypto? That's ballsy AF

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crypto, depends on when you started and how much you already took out

Good point

Agreed, it will happen

Just a matter of time

Iconomi will do this soon already

This guy publishes his crypto portfolios with pretty impressive performance https://cryptoportfolio.io/ However you can not buy it directly, you have to copy his positions on poloniex every Monday, after he publishes update

The big conflict I have there is how much many crypto advocates talk about speculation in for example, Real Estate

But that's what most are doing with cryptos

Poloniex lists a lot more cryptos than most of exchanges. I think only bittrex has more. You will not be able to copy all his positions on other exchanges.

I also do not like shorts there. You can lose everything because of shorts. I would prefer some long-only "low" risk portfolio.

@brian my understanding: you open bitcoin long position for 28.57$, monero short for $25.26, ripple short for 16.52$, etc...

probably you need 100$ more in your account for collaterial

you do not hold any cash

all alts are traded in bitcoin

except few in ether and usdt

yes

Yes, I think you can see it this way. This portfolio assumes bitcoin will stay strong.

Or if it goes down, alt-coins will compensate your loses

It is not always bitcoin long, everything else - short

eg. look at Medium Liquidity, it does not have bitcoin at all this week

Guys do you know if it's possible to open a broker account of some sort for a company without having a real bank account? Maybe using an EMI bank like leupay?

Yes. Charles Schwab.

Thanks @alexanderhay!

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Crypto is still for early adopters, it's now when the most profit (or most losses if you believe blockchain is a bubble) can be made :slightly_smiling_face:

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@ken I think the issue is not so much about blockchain as about the crypto-currencies, many of which are of dubious value. Something is worth whatever the market says it is worth. If this is a bubble, and people start wanting their cash it will collapse. If there is some solid basis for demand, not just a bunch of people speculating in expectation of making big bucks on things they know nothing about, then crypto will continue to rise. What should trouble people is not only the issue of whether it is a bubble being supported by the ignorant, but whether it can survive the eventual attacks that are going to come from the establishment. I suspect what is going to take down these crypto-currencies are going to be government issues and backed crypto-currencies that may very well be worse than what we have now.

general question for crypto experts/specialists?if you we?re to speculate on an currency now, aside from Ethereum, what would it be and why?

Metaverse (ETP), going to be on two exchanges the next two weeks. They got a big team, funding, it?s a platform where other companies can build on, and some more good things coming.

Quite convinced it will be 10+ soon.

Will be on Bittrex, one of the biggest exchanges soon.

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@stoplight ethereum is kind of stale now

has been for the past 6 months, since all the ether money has been diverted to every ico otu there

a lot of altcoins have not recovered since the china crash

but a lot of smaller coins surged out of almost never and they outperform the market daily, on 40-60-100% daily

not sustainable at all of course, they all dump after a few days and kind of fall back to original levels

but the investment game in crypto has just started

@aka thanks for the detailed feedback?seems speculating is not good at this time? :disappointed:

It is

It becomes a job

One sticking out in my portfolio is populous

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market caps (tradable) in comparison (USD billions): crypto 240 cannabis ~10 blockchain <1

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Hey i'm new in the Freedom Surfer community , I'm interested on open a off shore company for Crypto day trading , some one here been thru the process and can give some first best step ?

@ahl just a curious question, why would you need an off shore company for crypto trading? Are you planning to withdraw a lot of money back in fiat?

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anyone into private equity multifamily real estate deals? about $20m deals for 200 apts, min investments 50k ... looking at a few of these and the returns look rly good

no but curious, what kinda roi do they offer?

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@sdfk787 which country?

anyone investing in ICO crypto ?

my buddy is giving me an into on it

thats the site they show the upcoming ones

No, 99% is shit unfortunately. Rather invest in more trusted ones.

Any thoughts on royalty flow?

Seriously? ICO in invest channel? that?s a laugh :smile:

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@skat I am not suggesting you are wrong but could you share reasons why?

@bountybairn probability of any ICO being a success is very low, i would say it is so low? that it?s hard to call an investment. Just throwing away money.

Another reason why I wouldn?t invest much in ICO?s, but just wait till they reach the market is that they in more than 80%+ of the times go down the first 1-3 months after the launch. So you can always buy at a better price than the ICO basically.

@skat @danz thanks both...I tend to agree, never done an ICO, however do trade cryptos and always wait as the number of ICOs which rise during price discovery following launch is minuscule. Caveat: I only invest in cryptos which I feel have enduring value at their core purpose

ICO's are pump and dump schemes

you buy early and your buddies pump it up and you sell it to the suckers who think it will moon

its like kickstarter you don't own anything

the real estate deals I looked at are like 6% cap rates but they're value add they try to increase the rent by $150/m by renovating so they buy for $20m and plan to renovate for $2m and sell for $30m over 3-5yrs so you end up with 20% per yr roi and potentially get your cash out after yr2 on a refinance

over 20%

a lot of smaller companies doing this all over the US raising funds from accredited investors so only $1m net worth + can participate

@sdfk787 so that 20% roi is dependent on appreciation of the property/selling for $30m?

I've been seeing new condos for sale here in Manila with around a 6% roi, buy for $40k, rent for $200/mo. But it seems they just depreciate.

http://investlikeaboss.libsyn.com/77-turnkey-real-estate-investing-vs-reits 10% https://www.maverickinvestorgroup.com/investment-properties?field_property_reference_value=Baltimore

Hey I wanna start to make day trade crypto not under my privet name (tax Germany reason) , not looking so much to change to fiat , more to keep in crypto , any recommendations about how to start ? Or how to separate form the tax man point off view , the privet crypto , and the day trade crypto?

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I disagree, there are still solid ICOs, it's just a lot more work to research through all the crap, since literally everyone can start one these days..

@ken examples?

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Uranium stocks like UEC are finally breaking out.

2018 is going to be an interesting year for investing

Checkout BitDegree. They want to improve education.

@ken I don?t really care about the goal. Those ICO?s valuations are so huge, it?s really hard to return any value to investor. I?ve been in startup scene and have some clue what one can do with those money.. non of those ICO returned anything to investors. So currently, it?s just a stupid investment ? consider it charity. I would rather go traditional startup investment route?

Having an ICO that ?sounds more legit than others?, doesn?t make investing in them a better idea.

Let?s create a #charity channel and speak about ICO?s there.

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Nice, looks like a big bubble. It represents well the size of real markets,big 3: Eu, Nafta & Asia.. small 3: SA, Middle east, Oceania.

I have been thinking about investing on those. But as non-US resident I would have to pay 30% withholding tax so not sure so interesting for me. Not sure if there is a way around?

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Well, let's agree to disagree :wink:

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Anyone explored wine lending?

Similarly for silver lending

I?ve been involved in silver lending, Bordeaux cellars wants a minimum of ?120,000 for 9%, another group I know arranged a syndicate for buy in.

Usually I was aiming to get around 4% on silverbullions lending to cover storage fees plus admin, wire fees etc.

Was the silver lending worthwhile? Will you do it again?

4% after those fees?

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It depends on the deal

SB take funds from each deal, I think it?s a small percentage of the overall

The rest you need to work out yourself.

Depends n how much you store with them.

I like that I can use it as a line of credit at Low percentages. The only problem is the time it takes for the loan to proceed

https://www.whiskyinvestdirect.com/ - I don't know anything about it

There was a massive whiskey investment ponzi in Australia that ended with the distillery going bankrupt.

Bordeaux cellars seems ok, I know people who have received money back over two years now. I?d still only do that as a syndicate.

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New contract offer came though. As an example I was offered 24 month 4.5% pa on $8000. That?s $360 a year. $40 admin fee per year on the loan, I?m assuming that?s 0.5%. I think it?s fine to use that to sustain storage fees as it cuts down on the paper trail of constant money transfers into and out of a bullion company.

Who is that with @johncitizen?

@jase silver bullion Singapore

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Anyone considered investing in music royalties?

Interesting @jase very interesting

I think the tax on investments with RF for foreigners is 30%

If you?re American it?s fine

Yes it is

Plus you local tax on top

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Yep Hipgnosis in Guernsey would be much better for most of us... but of course the underlying assets are a major factor.

I was interested in the idea but then with 30% withholding tax (+ own local tax), not so interesting any more :disappointed:

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Real Vision just slashed their subscription price from 700$ to 180$. I've been subscribed to them since their very start and it's one of the best sources for investment education I know. You can get a 14 free trial, so go check'em out: https://www.realvision.com/

whats so good about them?

day trading tips?

I mostly appreciate their macro content. Excellent interviews with folks who're smarter than I'll ever be (ie Jim Grant or Luke Gromen). They do, however, have some expert's post their trading ideas occasionally.

@ivo have you tried their macro insiders newsletter?

Never have, but you can get some of Julian's work (who's curating the macro insider) through a free newsletter at https://www.mi2partners.com/

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Just found an article, I think could be interesting for the people in this group: https://www.marketviews.com/marine-cole/10-best-performing-etfs-of-2017/

But past performance is not an indicator of future performance;)

@roman True, but they are all in lucrative industries, which probably are riding trends of today and the future. What do you think when you check the niches, these ETFs are covering? :slightly_smiling_face:

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Missed out on an investment opp with this company. Very good idea.. an alternative investment. Know a couple people who bought royalties from here and are doing pretty well.

Yeah, have a few friends who did it too. Seems pretty legit.

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Hi guys, this post is more for my other groups but wanted to drop it in here too. Not expecting any investors from this group as we do not know each other on a personal or professional basis. I do think some interesting questions might come up so feel free to ask if you are curious. Also if anyone else is working deeply in this space, feel free to PM me for potential collaboration (more for serious conversation only, not random "should i buy BTC?" "is this ICO good?" etc type stuff. Looking for people who are working in crypto industry.) ---------------- Considering opening a new crypto fund and gauging interest from various HNI and groups that I'm in: - the core members of my current fund and I are considering leaving to start a new fund w/ a couple of career traders who have recently left their jobs at major trading firms to pursue crypto - can get into more specifics about who the core members are in the future but for now will just say they are all highly successful traders with 10+ years of track record and different skillsets among the different traders (options, HFT, stat arb) - the main strategy at our current desk has a track record of ~0.6%/day on an AUM of ~2.5mm (this strat is still being optimized, we think we can scale it to 5mm without much diminishing returns, sharpe ratio is 8.5) - we run alpha strategies on our PAs only for now so do not have official track records yet but between all of us (especially those who came from trading firms that are almost as hard to leave as the mafia because their trading IP are so valuable) we have enough alpha strategies to scale at least another 15mm (in the future a proper presentation on the details of this will be prepared) - reason for considering leaving the current desk is politics / management issues that prevent us from scaling to the size we would like - this would not be a hedge fund structure as the costs for these are too high to justify the benefits - instead the structure will be a limited company where shares are issued to all investors with strict rules on investing/divesting (this is semi standard for proprietary trading funds so there is a working contract framework to base this off of) - every member of the fund will be putting their own money into it, usually in 7 figure amounts - all potential investors will be welcome to visit us in HK to know each other on a personal basis, help with DD, and see our practices in person - my role in this fund is of a junior support role as I have by far the least experience (but I'm catching up quick under their tutelage) - preliminary estimates for fees are 30/2 with a minimum investment of ~500k At this point we are still in the early stages and exploring different options (one big anchor investor like a family office, multiple investors, or organically growing with our own capital) and seeing what level of interest there is helps in that exploration process. I personally think most members of our group who are yolo long would benefit a lot from having some portion of their crypto portfolio allocated into something with much better risk adjusted returns. Is that sentiment shared though? comments/feedback/questions appreciated *** as everything is still in early stages, most of what I've said so far is subject to change, this is all just general and preliminary information

@smuft84 Interesting. Good luck with the fund setup :slightly_smiling_face:

Good read: http://www.collaborativefund.com/blog/the-psychology-of-money/

That's good. Loved this point - Anchored-to-your-own-history bias: Your personal experiences make up maybe 0.00000001% of what?s happened in the world but maybe 80% of how you think the world works. - Beware of your own BS. Funny enough, was going to post something on mindset / beliefs etc... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKeaAbM2kJg

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With some cash to invest in metals would you buy silver or platinum these days?

silver

the growth will probably very much the same, but silver is cheaper and therefore has the compound element of grwoth

Does anyone have experience with investing in crowdfunding real estate platforms? (Housers, Propertymoose, Propertypartner and many more of those).

The one in Australia went tits up from memory

But no, I have no experience

@danz I've used other crowdfunding platforms, not delved into real estate as they seem to be more US focused.

@danz ?I?ve met with and our organization is planning to work with http://Brickowner.com - a British property crowdfunding platform?

@johncitizen, most are US, but there are some in Europe (propertypartner, propertymoose, housers as example). I am interested if anyone has experience with it, @stoplight, haven?t heard of this platform, I?ll take a look at it.

@danz it is new?

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Has anyone investedin royalties like on http://royaltyexchange.com? Love to hear your experience!

what work do you intend to do with them?

@stoplight

No, had a look, didn't see any worthwhile at the time. I did miss out on their private placement though.

Yep me neither but I'll definitely keep it on the radar. Surely a diversified portfolio must include *some* K-POP.

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we had an exploratory meeting?nothing concrete yet?it?s related to my other work?

@stoplight Ok, good luck!

What are peoples thoughts on Grants Interest Rate Observer?

Waste of money

I mean, it's good, but I think not worth the money.

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Where does everyone store their precious metals? I'm looking at Silver Bullion, GoldSilver, BullionStar. Overkill?

http://preciousmetaltax.com/overview/ not a bad site for some precious metals info.

Silver bullion SINGAPORE, I?m upset about the ever increasing premiums and storage fees :/

Considering selling my stack back to them and rebuying elsewhere.

Yeah I'm tossing up between them and BullionStar. Looking for an own vault solution is Singapore.

BullionStar fees are < 1% which is what I'm looking to keep under.

Disregarding SGPMX as LeFreeport is third party.

With silver bullion we lend a couple of grand on their P2P program to cover our storage fees.

P2P loans pay around 4.5%

On SGD

Thanks for the reminder @johncitizen! Forgot about that. I thought a read or watched somewhere awhile ago about it and there being a $50,000 minimum for P2P but checking the Silver Bullion website and it's $3000SGD or USD. Not sure if I'm mistaken or they've lowered it since launch. Either way definitely something to consider. Besides the fees you've mentioned, how is your experience?

I'm using http://goldmoney.com and also have gold in a bank storage.

It?s ok... I feel they are diversifying a lot more these days. The P2P is good, the storage is good

I believe they report accounts via CRS

Maybe for P2P

Not sure about PM?s

Bullion Vault is who I use

@johncitizen I emailed Silver Bullion after your message and this is the response I got.

Thank you for your email. Qns: Can you clarify how Silver Bullion falls under Singapore CRS compliance? Is it classified a Financial Institution? A Reporting Financial Institution? Are precious metal holdings reported or only say P2P loans? In short, Silver bullion is: 1. Not an FFI as per the IGA between the United States and Singapore; therefore Silver Bullion is not liable to report via FATCA be that under Model 1 or Model 2 2. Not under the purview of MAS (Monetary Authority of Singapore) 3. Not liable to report as per CRS 4. Silver Bullion does not report to any other entity, be that local or foreign, except in the cases of the following: a. CTR b. STR c. Court order only from a Singapore court d. To aid in police investigation only from the Singapore Police Force We fall under exclusive Singapore jurisdiction, which means that we have to follow only Singapore laws. Physical gold/silver/platinum are not considered financial instruments in Singapore - which means that Silver Bullion (SB) does not have reporting requirements to the Singapore government and certainly not to foreign governments or government agencies. We are excluded from FATCA and OECD reporting requirements. Furthermore, Singapore does not have capital gain taxes so there would be no reason to report buy/sell transactions here. This means that there is no transactional or customer reporting of any kind unless it is part of a criminal investigation based on a local court order. Please note however that while SB does not have reporting requirements from our side, you might be required to report transactions depending on your residency/citizenship as you will be subject to your home jurisdiction rules. In other words, it would be the customer's responsibility to know your tax reporting requirements in the country or territory that you are a resident of.

For the P2P loans especially lending, you might be required to report transactions depending on your residency/citizenship as you will be subject to your home jurisdiction rules. In other words, it would be the customer's responsibility to know your tax reporting requirements in the country or territory that you are a resident of.

In other words, don't use cash (https://www.police.gov.sg/about-us/organisational-structure/specialist-staff-departments/commercial-affairs-department/aml-cft/suspicious-transaction-reporting-office/cash-transaction-reporting) and don't act suspect (https://www.police.gov.sg/about-us/organisational-structure/specialist-staff-departments/commercial-affairs-department/aml-cft/suspicious-transaction-reporting-office/suspicious-transaction-reporting#content) and you're good to go.

fascinating to see how we're seeing big capital inflows into Georgian Lari on a risk off day like today. Seems like not all EM is being dumped.

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Anyone into Uranium? ETFs? Stocks?

Tried a few times. No luck.

I sold URA earlier this year because it had some not directly uranium related companies in it and bought more individual miners. https://www.globalxfunds.com/funds/ura/

I bought some miners like PDN DYL BMN FSY LAM FCU GXU LEU

9501

I only started looking into U yesterday. More research required. Have you used a shotgun approach on the basis that a rising U price lifts all boats?

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have been following the Uranium market for years, lost money for years.

It feels like its turning but as far as I can see it may still take quite a long time to come around as a whole

ya trying to make my own ETF with a handful of miners.

I think the tides will turn for you @stolzlos!

@burrup.lambert well, I hope you are right! Thanks.

@mikeseo there are some great stocks in your list. In fact, among all the U stocks, GXU is my personal favorite since quite some time.

GXU: Can't complain about that.

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Would love to hear community thoughts on this: https://youtu.be/5OFaZcC0lRU

tl;dr?

Thanks, just watched it. He explains clearly and I can?t agree more with most of the things. I am curious how the next five years will turn out. I also didn?t expect him to talk about crypto the last 3 minutes though.

@roman, have you got a membership there?

Ya the last 3 minutes definitely threw me off and made me question the ulterior motives. I don?t have a membership as I?m not a serious investor. I just stumbled on this video via Reddit. I?ve never followed or even knew that channel existed. But it does look super interesting.

Haven?t heard of it either, but it looks interesting for some videos and information about certain topics, investment ideas and opinions from people.

@roman This is part of the picture and the government, pension, student debt in the trillions etc. Demographics always plays a huge part in economy, just have a look over at Japan.

@roman @danz Regarding Real Vision, they have good interviews and opinions. Was recently send this one by a friend https://youtu.be/VWN6Y5Z3xs8

had it for a year, started a few months after they launched. Is it worth it? My personal opinion, yes. But there is a big but.

If you want to know how the pros work, you really need to binge watch. And that obviously takes a huge amount of time.

And while the information is really good the problem is that they RV is having itself some kind of world view which influences the selection of topics and also interviewed people. I think that was what threw me off in the end.

Raoul for example started buying BTC in 2013 around 250$. He always believe that it would go to 1mil$.

Then the final rally started and he averaged out around 1500$ seeing problems and became a real hater on the way to 20K. He hates it to this day.

that vid is likely the reason how RV got started. Raoul has a short appearance teaching TA. Anton Kreil is a former friend.

That series is a total recommend. I think I watched it 3 times.

Been a RV sice the launched a few years ago now and I regret not a single cent spent on it. I've learnt so much from those guys and am watching regularly. The recent Stanley Druckenmiller interviews is probably one of the best interviews I have ever seen. @stolzlos is right they have an agenda but there's nothing wrong with that if you can elaborate it.

@ivo damn, that Druckemiller interview I would love to see. I have been a fan of that guy for ages. I think I watched every interview with him I found on youtube at least a few times!

I just remembered that one of the reasons for me stopping was that they jacked up the price to 900$ or something at one point. That and combined with that they started to advertise all these extra products felt a little bit too much like a sales platform.

But eventually I will come back because I can confirm that their content is truly valuable. In fact the only reason holding me back is me having no time. They ask currently for 180$ and that is really cheap. I paid 300$, never looked back.

You need to diversify yo bonds - Wu-Tang Financial

If anyone is into agriculture investments - Me and my friend Christoph Heuermann are hosting a webinar about our walnut orchard investment today at 5pm GMT. You can join in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY_tcLuAtYk&feature=youtu.be&mc_cid=042ba4da93&mc_eid=719cd185bd it will also cover a section on how others can invest into the projects with as little as USD 10k. Looking forward to see some of you there.

Not starting yet?

Doesn?t seem to work unfortunately @ivo

hey @danz, yes we had some technical difficulties and had to restart the stream: you can watch the recording here: https://youtu.be/A_BGU5xq8TY If you have more questions feel free to ask me in person.

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That's very cool. Got to stay ahead of the game :panda_face:

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Does anyone have experience with, or recommendations for, robo-advisors (like Wealthfront, Betterment, Acorns, Wealthsimple etc) that accept residencies worldwide? Most US companies seem to only accept US residents and the EU alternatives tend to be very country specific. As alternative, what products or services should I consider to passively invest?

@sanderkocken No I don't, as not USA based. Depends on what returns you are looking for and where you are based.

@michael Based in Thailand as a dutch citizen. Looking for something in the range of 5-8% return per year through low to medium risk investments. Nothing spectacular. I currently use EMI?s for spending and a term deposit account for savings. Investing seems like a more lucrative option however, due to the ridiculously low interest rates.

@sanderkocken that is THE question. I have been looking for a while, it should be solved with ITIN and @simon support to get it. Other than that Sg banks do offer around 5% on portfolios, 2/3 on pesion plans guaranteed by government up to 100k. 8% is on deposits on some exotics currencies nearby where you are based. Happy to hear the answer if you find better options!

There?s p2p lending and real estate loans where you can get 5 - 14% a year.

Be wary of withholding taxes on US investments

@jase yeah, that is a major drawback. 30% on dividends is quite a chunk of the profits. I found a Singaporean robo advisor called Stashaway. They accept clients world wide with both USD and SGD portfolio?s. The majority of their offerings are US ETF?s though and therefore taxable at 30% as well..

@sanderkocken OCBC also has a robo advisor. You need to have a bank account with them though.

@simon Thanks. From their website I notice the eligibility section; ??Singaporeans, Permanent Residents, or Foreigners residing in Singapore aged 18 and above??. This makes me think you need a permanent address in singapore to open a current or savings account with them. Or should visiting as a tourist be enough?

They also accept non-residents, although not always. I believe a number of members here have opened accounts recently, with the takeaway being that you need a good reason for the account (such as also opening a brokerage account) and that even then it?s a bit of a hit and miss.

Good to know, thanks

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-- property investment in the best countries -- Hi guys! Are there any DN who use their traveler's advantage to make property investment in the best countries? Or people who really want to invest, have already made at least one investment, and want to mutualise research, especially about the following : - average profitability of the countries (example France 3%, Thailand 6%, Cambodia 3% etc) - if the law will permit to pass the property to our child - get a property loan as a DN - get a property loan as a Thailand (or Asia) tax resident - I also have the project to mutualise funds for buying a small building in Est Europe (without loan and with people who already made at least one investment before).

Cool idea @sylvain156. I prefer REITS right now just for simplicity but they're obviously limited by regions

Sure reits are so much simple. I'm not really into reits right now because I already have money invested in the trading market and I would like a % of my saving in physical things (like real estate, gold...)

Reits is having an action (a part) of a real estate company, and not a part of a building, is that true?

I think it?s pretty hard to get loan as a DN. You might be able to get it in the country of your residency though, but that really depends on your country.

It should be possible in some countries if you have a tax residency, bank account in your country of residency and proof monthly income/salary.

@danz Any bank in Georgia will refinance your apartment if you invest in a construction development of one of the major firms. Even as non-resident.

I don't quite understand your question sorry

But I think the answer is - it would depend on the REIT

@ivo Didn?t know that, good to know though. Hows the interest there for loans?

And what proof would they want to get a loan?

A lot of countries will lend the value of the property in a fire sale

For instance, in Andorra non-residents can get up to a 70% loan (assuming the property is fairly priced). If they're being ripped off, they'll do a 50% loan. Reason being, if the market tanks 40% and you run away, they can probably still sell the property for a small profit.

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thanks guys that's interesting ! @jase you live in Andorra right ? I lived in Bordeaux before, not fare. Would you say the property market in Andorra is interesting or not that much ? Do the banks speak english ? I could be interested if the property market is nice, I guess make a loan in Andorra doesn't have any impact on our loan capacity overseas.

Yeah I live in Andorra.

The property market isn't so interesting to me at this point in time. They are highly illiquid assets

Banks speak English

thanks @jase!

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can't find the article about investment into legal cannabis anymore on http://freedomsurfer.com

was it unpublished?

It?s currently down while I update it. Should be back up soon

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cheers, looking forward to read the new version

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