simon
2016-05-28 20:03
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maxsuur
2016-06-09 03:46
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jumichot
2016-06-09 07:26
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yura-by
2016-08-09 00:41
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kl5340dc
2016-09-27 11:42
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kl5340dc
2016-09-27 12:24
@kl5340dc has left the channel
rjmarsden
2016-09-28 10:55
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kiessler
2016-10-09 04:11
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jase
2016-10-11 12:43
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maxsuur
2016-10-27 14:18
@maxsuur uploaded a file: https://freedomsurfer.slack.com/files/maxsuur/F2V1CDQS2/slack_for_ios_upload.png
arcaballero
2016-10-28 10:06
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josh
2016-10-29 04:37
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agalt
2016-10-29 06:45
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stoplight
2016-10-29 15:23
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artem
2016-10-31 12:21
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stoplight
2016-11-02 19:34
i?m just curious, does anyone know if there have been people who have successfully become citizens of Paraguay without living there permanently?
maxsuur
2016-11-02 21:49
Not to my knowledge
maxsuur
2016-11-02 21:49
But i am sure there will be some
vbraut
2016-11-02 22:51
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jase
2016-11-03 08:02
I suspect when people do these things they are :zipper_mouth_face: about it
simon
2016-11-03 09:20
@stoplight Many people got the citizenship, back when the program was first launched. So many in fact that it created a national scandal in Paraguay. Since then, the government has made it an unofficial requirement that any applicant must have strong ties to the country in order to be approved.
stoplight
2016-11-03 09:25
Strong ties? ..like renting a long term apartment or opening an ?internet business? ..
simon
2016-11-03 09:28
More like a Paraguayan wife, kids, a local business employing local staff, being able to speak Garani etc.
stoplight
2016-11-03 09:31
oh my?that?s not an easy feat..
simon
2016-11-03 09:39
Indeed. If you do not plan to live there, it will be nearly impossible to qualify for citizenship. There are other south american countries with "easier" programs (or a shorter required stay).
josh
2016-11-03 10:00
Does Brazil still do the program where if you knock up a local - or even just have a baby with your foreign girl - everybody gets citizenship within like a year?
simon
2016-11-03 10:05
@josh I believe so but while it is easy to qualify for that program, ongoing "compliance" can be quite costly :stuck_out_tongue:
josh
2016-11-03 10:06
hahaha I guess it depends on if you get the right baby mama or not!
stoplight
2016-11-03 10:11
hahaha?well?brazilian women are generally good looking?hahaha.. :smile:
josh
2016-11-03 10:12
I was reading today also that their real estate market is taking a dive
josh
2016-11-03 10:19
Has anyone applied for citizenship in Liberland?
stoplight
2016-11-03 10:23
Uhmm?yes? :slightly_smiling_face: ?i?m actually Liberland?s official representative here in the Philippines...
josh
2016-11-03 10:26
nice! How are you tied in with them?
stoplight
2016-11-03 10:29
In official capacity?albeit unrecognized of course?.I?m the Honorary Consul for the Philippines
simon
2016-11-03 10:31
@stoplight Is the pay good? :stuck_out_tongue:
josh
2016-11-03 10:32
haha I was going to ask if there?s an embassy
josh
2016-11-03 10:32
I really hope it succeeds.
stoplight
2016-11-03 10:35
pay? what pay? hahahhah
stoplight
2016-11-03 10:37
No, officially speaking, the country still doesn?t exist and no other country has ?officially? recognized it and by the Geneva convention, i?m not allowed to open an Embassy?but the Montevideo convention allows us to represent Liberland?so its a lot of foreign diplomacy issues..
stoplight
2016-11-03 10:38
the good news is that the folks in Croatia are starting to warm up to the idea?President Vit?the guy who started the idea..actually got a stamp on his Diplomatic passport from Serbian borders?whether that was a one off mistake from an immigration officer or an actual recognition?either way..its one step closer...
josh
2016-11-03 10:39
How many people have Liberland passports? If they?d taken him to a small windowless room for using a ?fake? passport what was his plan B? that?s pretty ballsy.
josh
2016-11-03 10:40
Seems like the diplomacy tour has been going on for a couple years now - why not pitch it to people fed up with their home country systems, instead of focusing all efforts on getting acceptance from the status quo?
stoplight
2016-11-03 10:43
Only a handful of people have Liberland passports and they are strictly limited to Diplomatic ones?among us representatives, only those with high end prospects for recognition of Liberland in their own country are issued Diplomatic Passports?like the folks in Poland who actually got several Polish parliament members to propose recognition by the government...
stoplight
2016-11-03 10:45
We are limiting the issue of passports..in fact, I was personally against its issue in our internal representative forums?but some of the representatives feel the need to show official representation and a diplomatic passport will do that.
stoplight
2016-11-03 10:49
Yup..diplomacy tour is happening almost everyday and costly as well..but we got folks like Roger Ver donating to the cause so everything is pretty serious?it?s been only two years..recognition won?t happen overnight?I personally foresee the earliest would be sometime 2-3 years more from now..
josh
2016-11-03 10:49
That makes sense. As long as they?re not selling ID cards like that little private island near the UK...
stoplight
2016-11-03 10:49
Oh definitely. This is not Sealand! hahaha
josh
2016-11-03 10:50
It?s a really cool project - I remember there was one proposed for the coast of Honduras a few years back, that got shot down quickly haha. But Liberland seems like it is making serious strides which is great.
simon
2016-11-03 10:55
What's the end game though? If Liberland is recognized by other countries I mean.
josh
2016-11-03 10:59
Build a libertarian Hong Kong on that 7km of land from what I know
josh
2016-11-03 11:01
Bring the best people from all over the planet
stoplight
2016-11-03 11:02
Exactly @josh ?that?s the idea?we actually have access to the more than 400,000 folks who applied for citizenship?out of that number?only about 80,000 have good intentions?others are from your usual ?I want a passport so I can go to the U.S.? kind of folks?who signed up not knowing what the objective is..
stoplight
2016-11-03 11:03
Out of 80,000?we are targeting an actual citizenship who will live there to be about 20,000 or less?and focus on more e-services to make money...
stoplight
2016-11-03 11:03
In fact, a preview of things to come is already available?
josh
2016-11-03 11:03
Ah so not a skyscraper city so much then, but more of a digital HQ?
stoplight
2016-11-03 11:05
It?s alpha not even beta app but the idea is to integrate estonia?s e-residency services with other services to Uber, Paypal, etc?the app is still a year or two away from reality.
josh
2016-11-03 11:08
How does Liberland benefit from that?
stoplight
2016-11-03 11:08
Skycrapers are being planned but realistically, the land may not support that much weight so again..they?re thinking of more towards a floating city concept?more eco friendly?we can?t build an airstrip because it would pretty much be at the center of the island..so we need the help of the neighboring towns in Serbia and Croatia which the locals have welcomed the idea because 3 years ago..that patch of land was another jungle inhabited by animals?now their towns have been visited by people from around the world..if anything?tourism has increased in the area surrounding Liberland which actually benefited both Serbia & Croatia...
stoplight
2016-11-03 11:08
Same concept how estonia makes money...
josh
2016-11-03 11:09
Oh so not actually using Estonian e-residency just that idea
simon
2016-11-03 11:09
@stoplight What are the requirements for citizenship? I mean, to be selected as one of those 20000?
josh
2016-11-03 11:09
Makes sense about tourism and land usage.
josh
2016-11-03 11:10
@simon from filling out the application I got the sense one better either bring a lot of cash or be a total baller in a profession that Liberland needs, or nope...
josh
2016-11-03 11:12
Which makes sense. More difficult will be "the republic, if you can keep it"
stoplight
2016-11-03 11:17
yes?that?s the idea..
stoplight
2016-11-03 11:19
technically??anyone? can be a citizen?but of course?what we don?t say is that you have to work for it?like the concept of voluntary taxation?meaning..if you pay more taxes?you will have a bigger voice in the moulding of things?same with us representatives?the more time we put in for diplomacy under the Liberland flag..the better we are involved in the decision making process..there?s about 80 representatives worldwide?so much like an online parliament if you will..
josh
2016-11-03 11:24
So with all the problems of "money in politics" what is the plan to make sure it's actually a free market rather than just a bunch of rich guys with a lot of Bitcoin getting together to make a country?
stoplight
2016-11-03 11:27
Everything will be privatized except for some basic government matters?very libertarian?so healthcare?education?roads etc? will all be privately owned...
stoplight
2016-11-03 11:29
and yes..in reality..the format is really like Monaco, Singapore and Hong Kong?which are basically places where ?rich guys? prosper?but Liberland has minus the red tape and government bullshit?again?some believe its more fantasy than reality at this point but step one is really just recognition?after that?everything will be ?crowdfunded?...
josh
2016-11-03 11:39
I think it?s a great concept, I hope it succeeds (and to be part of it at some point). It needs to ?tell the story? more though I think. Like, a mockup - even a total fantastical mockup - of the floating city you mentioned, would I think go a long way toward that goal, more than the focus of the site now which is seems to be the flag and coat of arms.
People share and get excited about all manner of utopian floating cities etc - I think we had one in here recently, it?s awesome - I haven?t seen anything like that with Liberland though. And maybe I?m just too visual and the intellectuals Liberland is targeting are on a level beyond me, but - I highly doubt that, because the best marketing visuals on the planet are luxury goods (Rolls Royce is amazing).
josh
2016-11-03 11:41
Even if the goal is a mostly digital country - there?s a story there that can convey a human hook. Whether it?s the blockchain or global interconnectivity or the benefits of having a Liberland passport (?visa-free to 167 countries!?), something to tell the story of what it?s aiming for would go a long way.
stoplight
2016-11-03 11:42
Haha..yes..agree with you 100% with a better website and presentation and all..but as most, if not all people are doing things voluntarily..things don?t happen overnight..most of the funds donated are going into the diplomacy activities...
stoplight
2016-11-03 11:43
hold on..all of that is already mostly in out presentation booklet not found on our website?intentionally
simon
2016-11-03 11:44
Will there be a mechanism in place to prevent some big shot from coming in and buying the entire country? Because unlike HK or SG, it will be within reach of quite a few hnwi, at least in the first few years.
josh
2016-11-03 11:45
?Trump Island"
stoplight
2016-11-03 11:45
yes?there are limitations in place?we also don?t want every damn rich SOB buying everything?hahaha..
josh
2016-11-03 11:45
what?s the motive behind keeping all those things off the website?
josh
2016-11-03 11:46
I?m not sure if I have seen a presentation booklet. I filled all that stuff out a long time ago.
stoplight
2016-11-03 11:49
I?m trying to upload it now?the info booklet is given at diplomacy events for diplomats and politicians who can help get the country recognition?its contents are constantly changing as more and more events happen ?thats why its not published on the main website?it is however on another non-official liberland website?let me see if I can find the link
stoplight
2016-11-03 11:55
Found one...here it is? http://conference.liberland.org/book.html ..it?s not the most updated one but most of the recent additions are minor anyway?.
josh
2016-11-03 11:58
thanks! that?s what I?m talking about. Will be interesting to go through.
stoplight
2016-11-03 12:05
your welcome..have to go now and do some real work?haha...
vincent
2016-11-03 15:17
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jase
2016-11-03 17:25
Haha that is awesome @stoplight!
jase
2016-11-03 17:31
Do you need any help with the website?
reese
2016-11-03 18:53
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anna
2016-11-06 21:00
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clr
2016-11-07 18:42
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stoplight
2016-11-08 09:25
hi @jase sorry wasn?t able to answer your query?I know they got some full time IT manager handling those stuff at the official ?government office? in Prague where President Vit and the others are currently based..they are however planning a shared office just outside the Liberland borders on Serbian side for folks wanting to put up things in Liberland?that should be a preview of things to come..
stoplight
2016-11-08 09:26
on a different matter?did you guys know that Malta made tons of money off selling their passports! :smile:
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20161031/local/iip-generates-3103-million-minister.629626
stoplight
2016-11-08 09:26
cash for citizenship is just getting bigger and bigger..yepp...
jase
2016-11-08 09:26
No stress! Let me know if you guys ever need a hand - SEO/marketing/etc. I'd love to get involved.
stoplight
2016-11-08 09:43
Sure will definitely bring that up in our next weekly conference call..
darwin
2016-11-08 22:53
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harvie
2016-11-10 03:14
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yamahoto
2016-11-13 00:23
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alexanderhay
2016-11-15 16:13
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rjmarsden
2016-11-17 04:22
Anyone any thoughts on Uruguay as a second residency/passport option for a Brexit panicked English man and his young family? Read @simon 's article and done some reading and the place looks promising.
simon
2016-11-17 08:53
@rjmarsden I wouldn't worry too much about Brexit, at least until we have more details. That said, having a plan B is always a great idea. If you are interested in south America, Uruguay and Chile are definitely your best options. As a new residency you get a tax exemption for 5 years (6 for Chile) and qualifying for residency is easy. Uruguay is a "quiet" place though, if you like big cities you definitely won't like it.
rjmarsden
2016-11-17 09:18
Thanks @simon I agree Brexit will be a slow process but articles like the one below get me thinking. Plus you're correct a second option is always good and I have always wanted to learn spanish and have the kids as multilingual, thanks for the tip on Chile as well i will take a look
https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/history-tells-us-what-will-happen-next-with-brexit-trump-a3fefd154714#.9r1jf9rpr
jase
2016-11-17 10:04
NZ gets 4 years offshore tax exemption
theremotetrip
2016-11-17 10:51
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rjmarsden
2016-11-17 13:38
Thanks for the NZ tip @jase , the wife and I are both qualified teachers (though not actively classroom teaching anymore) so i think that would get us in
jase
2016-11-17 14:53
From memory my wife (Aussie teacher) was able to teach over there without any more certification @rjmarsden
scorps
2016-11-19 15:24
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gary
2016-11-19 19:47
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tal
2016-11-23 16:07
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torsten
2016-12-01 16:30
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soebusiness
2016-12-08 10:43
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trevorjames
2016-12-13 17:33
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max
2016-12-19 05:27
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djoneverett
2016-12-21 11:08
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jase
2016-12-27 08:23
Not sure where to post, this but EUR75000 investment in your high potential startup in Ireland can get you residency and citizenship.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Guidelines%20for%20Start-up%20Entrepreneur%20Programme.pdf/Files/Guidelines%20for%20Start-up%20Entrepreneur%20Programme.pdf
agalt
2016-12-27 08:54
Awesome!
petr.novak
2016-12-27 09:29
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remy
2016-12-27 10:31
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alexanderhay
2016-12-27 13:54
@jase that is a nice option!
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 14:20
Latvia has an interesting residency option: 35,000 EUR if you invest in a JSC that pays 40,000 EUR in taxes a year, or 150,000 EUR regardless of taxation of the company.
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 14:27
The Georgia option is 300,000 GEL (about $105,000 to $110,000 USD at recent exchange rates) which includes a full residence visa for all members of the family, no renewal ever required, and access to a quick citizenship application if you actually live and invest in Georgia.
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 14:45
As I think about it, Chile has some sort of option that if you qualify, they actually give you money to move there and start your business!
maxsuur
2016-12-27 14:56
Well, that is even better
agalt
2016-12-27 15:00
the concern with chile is the buerocracy. In georgia I can get stuff done quickly at goverment offices and save time.
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:09
Indeed. I do not trust any Latin American country. Chile is the best, but it is going in the same direction as the rest of Latin America.
jase
2016-12-27 15:10
Which country shows the most promise to everyone in the long term?
jase
2016-12-27 15:10
How about region?
agalt
2016-12-27 15:10
Eastern Europe for sure
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:10
For me it is Georgia. That is where I have put my money.
jase
2016-12-27 15:10
money as in investing in local business?
jase
2016-12-27 15:10
personal question I know
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:11
Yes.
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:11
I am investing in real estate. I have set up 3 apartments for AirBnB, and I am flipping others.
jase
2016-12-27 15:11
Are you concerned about instability in the region?
jase
2016-12-27 15:11
Is it just promoted to be worse than it is?
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:11
I am concerned about instability everywhere.
jase
2016-12-27 15:12
Good reply :slightly_smiling_face:
maxsuur
2016-12-27 15:12
Nice
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:12
Georgia less than I was a year ago.
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:12
I don't know who is talking about Georgia being unstable.
jase
2016-12-27 15:12
Not explicitly Georgia
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:12
I hear that and I just don't understand.
agalt
2016-12-27 15:12
many places are nice, but today in Sofia Bulgaria, an american friend told me how many months and pages of goverment paperwork he had to go through to get temporary residency
jase
2016-12-27 15:13
Say Turkey for instance
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:13
I am not in Turkey.
jase
2016-12-27 15:13
That's why I said "in the region"
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:13
How about Croatia?
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:14
Or Montenegro?
agalt
2016-12-27 15:14
interested in real estate in southern croatia and montenegro
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:14
Is it damned because Serbia is a little spotty?
jase
2016-12-27 15:14
A no would suffice
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:15
hehehehe!
agalt
2016-12-27 15:15
turkey is a different animal
maxsuur
2016-12-27 15:15
Nobody is talking about kazajstan, uzbekistan and so on. Thoughts?
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:15
I think Georgia is a very exciting place for business. Full of opportunities.
agalt
2016-12-27 15:15
its the special snowflake that bulgarians and georgians don't know how to deal with from what some have said
agalt
2016-12-27 15:15
*turkey
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:16
Again, I have put my own money there, and so far I am very pleased by the results.
jase
2016-12-27 15:16
What I'm intrigued by are great countries being brought down by their region. Then of course there's the economic perspective and the "living there" perspective.
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:17
As for the Stans, I am not very interested. Have heard nothing that has improved my opinion since watching Borat.
maxsuur
2016-12-27 15:18
Thanks @alexanderhay good movie though
agalt
2016-12-27 15:18
great movie :slightly_smiling_face:
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:18
Unless you are selling bonds in Uzbeckistan!
agalt
2016-12-27 15:18
wait what? this is something new...
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:18
back to work for me!
maxsuur
2016-12-27 15:20
Uzbek Bonds.. sounds like a dream
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:21
Unless you want to get your money back!
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:21
I am sure they exist.
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:24
for those who are extremely daring: http://em.cbonds.com/countries/Uzbekistan-bond
agalt
2016-12-27 15:24
what kind of insurance do georgian banks have for those interested?
agalt
2016-12-27 15:24
is it like the FDIC in the US?
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:30
No. No one has that. However, because the bank deposits are not guaranteed they are better regulated.
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:32
At least that is my understanding. It is one of the areas where Georgia is quite good. Georgian banks are simply not allowed to speculate with deposits in an unsafe manner. They also are required to maintain solid capitlization. So they are some of the safest banks in the world.
alexanderhay
2016-12-27 15:33
Frankly, I think FDIC is one of the more stupid ideas in the USA. It promotes lazy consumers and irresponsible banking since everything up to $100,000 is covered by the insurance.
alex
2016-12-27 23:54
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ahawkins
2016-12-28 10:36
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philippe
2016-12-28 14:28
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philippe
2016-12-28 20:23
My (belgian) partner was born in Thailand and had a birth certificate with a ?has thai nationality? stamp. Apparently the law has changed and she can?t get the double nationality anymore ? If anyone is versed in thai laws?
sherice
2016-12-29 04:18
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americanomad
2016-12-31 00:08
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josh
2016-12-31 11:03
that is really interesting about the Georgian banks @alexanderhay .
jase
2016-12-31 13:48
Anyone banking in Singapore, FYI it is $50k SGD only. Any foreign currencies are not guaranteed.
alexanderhay
2016-12-31 15:28
I feel very comfortable about Georgian banks. My complaints are more macro than micro.
petrsuska
2017-01-02 12:29
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dawn
2017-01-02 21:59
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stoplight
2017-01-05 06:46
Not too well versed in Thai nationality laws but as a citizenship consultant?but as far as I know Thailand doesn?t allow dual citizenship?but like in many countries?such as Singapore who is adamant that no Singaporean should get another nationality ?or else??.and this is the hard part?because enforcement is always the issue?.
stoplight
2017-01-05 06:50
In my opinion, she can still get a Thai citizenship if she ?shows? a letter to the Thai government when she applies for a passport that she is ?renouncing? her Belgian citizenship?technically they should grant her one?of course?if she decides not to continue with her renouncing..the Thai government wouldn?t know?
stoplight
2017-01-05 06:50
...on the other hand?i?m sure the Thai authorities can always be ?convinced? by a few Baht here and there so they just ?don?t care" and issue a Thai passport without caring at all what?s written on the birth certificate? :smile: ...
stoplight
2017-01-05 06:56
If anyone can get a forged foreign passport in the shady streets of Bangkok?certainly..a Thailand born person could get a real Thai passport easily? :joy:
jase
2017-01-05 10:12
I've heard this is more common than I first thought. A lot of Andorrans have dual nationality and get away with it. The last guy was caught when he was stopped at the border, took out his 2 passports rubber-banded together and gave Duana the Andorran one. :thinking_face:
philippe
2017-01-05 10:20
Thank you @stoplight
maxsuur
2017-01-05 10:53
insensible fella haha
agalt
2017-01-05 12:19
its very common. many countries cant check, and most of the time there are exceptions.
agalt
2017-01-05 12:20
georgia only allows one nationality, BUT you can apply via the presidential program and keep your old passports, and if you get another after Georgian, how can they check.
stoplight
2017-01-05 12:25
Some good news for those in the market for a second passport/citizenship with money and no time to spare. For several decades, Dominica cornered the market as the most affordable fast track citizenship/passport program at $100,000 for a solo applicant. Just yesterday, I received an email from my government partner containing an official letter from the Saint Lucia government that they have lowered their pricing not only to match Dominica for solo applications but also effectively eliminate other competing Caribbean citizenship by investment programs by offering the most affordable for a couple at $165,000 and for a family of four at $190,000. On top of that, the Saint Lucian passport is also stronger than Dominica and Grenada?s passport and just a few notches lower than St. Kitts and Antigua. Simply amazing what competition can do!
agalt
2017-01-05 12:37
thats not a bad deal for a couple
tkrunning
2017-01-05 20:51
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ace01
2017-01-07 01:15
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princevaliant
2017-01-08 21:40
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saskia
2017-01-09 11:41
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simon
2017-01-09 13:20
@stoplight This is great news! Saint Lucia being a CARICOM member, this will be an interesting option for those who want to live in the Caribbean region. Especially the Bahamas.
stoplight
2017-01-09 14:22
@simon yup absolutely?and some folks say comparing to other Caribbean islands such as Dominica or Grenada?Saint Lucia isn?t really a bad place to live as well.. :slightly_smiling_face: ?maybe cheaper than the Bahamas.. :smile:
simon
2017-01-09 14:27
@stoplight For people like us who are used to city living, moving to any of the Caribbean islands permanently would be a major challenge :stuck_out_tongue: As a place to have a second home however it can make a lot of sense.
stoplight
2017-01-09 14:40
@simon haha! agree! :smile: but?I actually have been pondering on the idea of trying out Port of Spain - Trinidad & Tobago for a few months and see how it goes?it?s not as tiny as the other islands?definitely has a city feel to it..and having more than a million people?won?t feel like you know everybody?all that and still have the island vibe as well? :slightly_smiling_face:
skat
2017-01-10 13:24
has joined #citizenship
mescos
2017-01-12 16:48
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jjlm
2017-01-12 22:36
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danz
2017-01-13 04:23
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yuli
2017-01-16 06:35
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stoplight
2017-01-17 00:51
I?m unsure if you folks have heard or watched this 60 minutes episodes last January 1st?it seems its a clear an attack on some Caribbean nations?have yet to confirm with my local government partners but it seems someone funded this smear campaign?
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-citizenship-passport-international-industry/?inf_contact_key=82fcf989d1312c01816a0a238dfed5e59b91bd057e512c9195e4b4937bd28198
stoplight
2017-01-17 00:52
It?s ironic that there was no mention of other countries residency leading to citizenship programs which the US, Canada & UK make more millions out of compared to the chump change the Caribbean nations make..
jd
2017-01-17 05:55
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agalt
2017-01-17 11:00
to some people, the island nation countries offering citizenship look dirty on paper. Many other good citizenship options exist in countries that are not so high profile.
arkdeeplove
2017-01-21 17:55
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stoplight
2017-01-22 12:09
@agalt ..well..its normally backed by US black propaganda?thats why.. :smile: ..you know very well how they want to take control of anyone and everyone?with Trump on board now?hopefully things like this would change.. :smile:
hhenrikson
2017-01-23 09:29
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el_roberto
2017-01-23 13:10
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foreverlearning
2017-01-23 18:33
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stoplight
2017-01-23 22:08
maxsuur
2017-01-23 22:51
Mmmm
ace01
2017-01-24 10:37
Haha ive clocked up nearly two years waiting on them. They are beyond hopeless, i think they have the Greeks beat.
maxsuur
2017-01-24 11:10
Have you also applied for other citizenship programs @ace01 ?
ace01
2017-01-24 11:25
Ive tried to organise an Italian citizenship but unfortunately a lot of familys documents dont match up spelling/locations. They are very picky and hard to deal with in Melbourne so I will try again in Trieste.
ace01
2017-01-24 11:27
Funny thing is the Maltese office was great in Melbourne, its their office in Valetta thats a mess. I went up there last year to check on the status and I got the same story as the article.
jase
2017-01-24 12:44
My wife managed to get citizenship through the Adelaide office @ace01. She is yet to get a passport though. Not speaking Italian makes it hard to get in Italy but the Adelaide consulate is quite funny about non-residents using their services..
ace01
2017-01-24 23:47
Well too late now, in HK now opening a few bank accounts and then its off to Georgia. Might just have to wait another year for the Maltese papers to come through and that should be good enough :joy:
harvie
2017-01-25 03:03
@ace01 can you let us know how you get on with the account openings in HK. I am looking to go there soon.
agalt
2017-01-25 04:28
@ace01 let me know when you are in Georgia. Happy to help if i can, or at the very least, get coffee and answer questions you msy have.
ace01
2017-01-25 06:15
@harvie i have had luck with ICBC yesterday and they have already given me the token. The rest of the banks have knocked me back as they want referral letters. I have a meeting with OCBC tomorrow so hopefully I can get a second one open. PM me and I can let you know about the finer details.
ace01
2017-01-25 06:16
@agalt That sounds great thanks. I have a heap of questions :)
agalt
2017-01-25 06:23
@ace01 ill send you a pm
danz
2017-01-25 06:42
I went to like 7 banks in december in SG, OCBC was the only one that wanted to open. Seems it?s getting harder and harder in HK and SG.
harvie
2017-01-25 06:43
@ace01 thanks mate, could you PM or post here what you took to the bank in terms of proof, I might head there next month if that's the case, how much did they want to open the account?. @danz same for me, OCBC were easy everyone else said no.
danz
2017-01-25 06:44
Some said yes, but need funding of a few million to open
ace01
2017-01-25 07:29
Yes the HK based banks are a little difficult and a few require a ridiculous funding to start up. What I have found is that you really do need referrals from people/businesses that already bank with them. Otherwise you are just going to waste time and money trekking over there.
maxsuur
2017-01-25 08:10
We should do a referral section pool in here. Many of the FS members are clients of those banks.
ace01
2017-01-25 08:41
Yes I would be down for that after my accounts are opened up. I am a little surprised that this hasn't been already set up on the website, or maybe I have just missed it.
maxsuur
2017-01-25 08:53
That would bulk up the perceived and actual value of this membership. Even doubling it. Nuff said. :)
simon
2017-01-25 09:18
@ace01 @maxsuur I've thought about it a while back but worried that no one would want to put their name on the line for strangers. If there is interest, I can definitely add it as a feature. What type of security / vetting would you be happy with? I'm thinking that e-residency in Estonia could be useful here (we would basically outsource the due diligence to the EE gov)
stoplight
2017-01-25 09:51
This would be really a good matter to pursue?but agree with Simon that there needs to be some due diligence before we put all our names on the line.. :slightly_smiling_face: ?yeah..sounds good..an Estonian e-residency would really be a nice start..what other options can we do?
danz
2017-01-25 10:39
Maybe we don?t have to put all the details there in straight away, but just the slack usernames or something and from there we can contact each other by pm
maxsuur
2017-01-25 11:25
That is certainly a good idea. We can call it the "One-Hundred- Euro-Note Club" in honor to the application fee for the Estonian E-residency
maxsuur
2017-01-25 11:27
@maxsuur uploaded a file: https://freedomsurfer.slack.com/files/maxsuur/F3W6SBTS6/in_da_club.jpg
jase
2017-01-25 11:40
I was asked by a member a few months ago, while travelling - he made it to be an urgent thing.
jase
2017-01-25 11:40
Then he disappeared into thin air.
jase
2017-01-25 11:41
A simple "thanks for your time and consideration" would have sufficed...
maxsuur
2017-01-25 11:44
Ungrateful people.. the world is full of.
stoplight
2017-01-25 15:21
And that?s why I guess we have to really know who were endorsing I guess?
stoplight
2017-01-25 15:23
Maybe what we can do is aside from the e-residency, we must also have some sort of a ?residency? time here on the slack forum as well?someone who contributes/participates for at least 3 months?that way we can really gauge...more or less?the person?s intentions...
stoplight
2017-01-25 15:24
After all, if the other member is going to put his name on the line?we?re talking banking here?might as well get to know the person he?s endorsing...
tatelev
2017-01-25 15:27
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skat
2017-01-25 21:32
@simon what kind of due dilligence does Estonia do? I?m a bit surprised as Estonian, because personal information is private in europe (and i worked for a lot of years for company that does background screening) - so nothing besides checking your criminal records for big offences? and well, it?s possible even to pass that if you know how :slightly_smiling_face:
skat
2017-01-25 21:36
Criminal records have this limitation - that they could be accessed only 3 times a week. So you go to different police stations and request your criminal records 3 times ? and then go and pass all criminal checks (it will just return nothing on you).
maxsuur
2017-01-25 22:14
You could do that an ebook with that information. "How to bypass legally your criminal record checking even if you don't have any criminal background"
skat
2017-01-26 07:10
@maxsuur I was actually thinking to build a start-up around helping people apply for jobs and pass background screening.
maxsuur
2017-01-26 07:33
Like the concept
simon
2017-01-27 06:21
@skat I'm not entirely sure on how Estonia vets applicants. My guess is that they run an Interpol search and that's about it. I don't see what else they could do other than Google the applicant or check if the applicant is in the global banking blacklist.
simon
2017-01-27 06:25
What I was thinking: Someone who wants a reference should first have some track record established (here or online in general). The member should then sign a declaration using his / her e-Residency card (to confirm the name, important as the reference letter will be addressed to that name). The member offering the reference could then decide if he / she wants more information / vetting.
stoplight
2017-01-27 08:22
Sounds like a good plan @simon! :slightly_smiling_face: ?time for me to register for Estonian e-residency?i?ve been putting it off for some time...
save
2017-01-27 08:35
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skat
2017-01-27 13:55
@simon technically it does make sense, since verification part is mostly provided with e-residency services.
726dbr
2017-01-28 07:05
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wojtek
2017-01-28 15:58
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skat
2017-01-30 11:33
Here is a talk from a person who started e-residency program in Estonia -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIptAtTNVvc , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny75q_hbT7w
skat
2017-01-30 11:42
I noticed there is a lot of interest among local crowd about e-residency
skat
2017-01-30 11:42
so, decided to share
jb
2017-02-03 14:05
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gbennett
2017-02-08 02:38
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replay
2017-02-09 22:16
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nemo
2017-02-10 13:07
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jamief
2017-02-17 09:52
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princevaliant
2017-02-28 12:30
Anyone has reliable infos about panama citizenship by teak investment? Is it worth?
tatelev
2017-02-28 13:50
does having estonian e-residency change in any way how the country where you live considers you, your incomes and your assets?
skat
2017-02-28 15:03
@tatelev It doesn?t give you any change in your residential status. So i guess, answer is no.
tatelev
2017-02-28 16:34
not sure I get in what user case it is advantageous. I?m sure it facilitates things if you are a foreigner with an estonian company, but anybody else that can benefit?
jase
2017-02-28 17:07
princevaliant: Friendly Nations Visa is very easy to get. If you are eligible for FNV I wouldn't even consider a "teak" investment (buying residency)
danz
2017-02-28 17:32
Anyone here has applied for Malaysian citizenship by their 2nd home program?
ivopalazzi
2017-03-01 17:53
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stoplight
2017-03-02 06:07
@tatelev ?I think the main advantage of Estonia e-residency is the ability to enter the European market for business without actually having to be in the EU..
stoplight
2017-03-02 06:12
@princevaliant ?I agree with @jase ?the teak investment isn?t really a worthwhile activity as well?if you?re going to spend that much..might as well go with the Caribbean programs?you get citizenship in a few months...
stoplight
2017-03-02 06:15
@danz ?I?m unsure if anyone here in the FS forum has but I know someone who did?it?s a solid program..unfortunately?it doesn?t allow you to work in Malaysia?officially anyway..if you have an online business..this shouldn?t be a problem though?the bank bond is quite high as well?Thailand and Philippines have similar programs..which cost relatively less...
danz
2017-03-02 06:29
@stoplight, thanks for the reply. The bank bond is quite high which doesn?t it make it that interesting indeed. What about Thailand, is foreign-source income not taxable if you get citizenship there?
stoplight
2017-03-02 07:11
@danz you don?t get citizenship in Thailand?you just get residency card...
stoplight
2017-03-02 07:11
foreign-source income should be no problem?lots of folks here who are living in Thailand..
danz
2017-03-02 07:15
I see, yeah I know but most of them don?t have their business set up structured properly for what I know. I actually am in Thailand most of the times to.
stoplight
2017-03-02 11:36
Well I guess it all depends on what you do and what your objectives are ... :slightly_smiling_face:
josh
2017-03-06 06:59
Hey guys I have a friend who is a pro basketball player internationally - he wants to get citizenship in ASEAN somehow.
The reason is because he's really good and could play in the ABL, but he's a point guard not a big guy, and the rules only allow 2 foreign guys so teams use them on big tall guys from the US. With citizenship though he could play as a local.
I don't see a simple way to a passport in SE Asia without dropping 6 figures, although some ballers have gotten it in the Philippines I guess.
Thanks!
stoplight
2017-03-06 08:06
@josh ?I used to work for the ABL?pm me..
yu138086
2017-03-07 15:21
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yu138086
2017-03-07 15:43
@yu138086 has left the channel
mrblonde
2017-03-08 17:25
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globalconsulteurope
2017-03-09 12:50
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jerobo
2017-03-12 17:19
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highflier
2017-03-12 20:00
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johannago
2017-03-14 16:28
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crimsonpost
2017-03-15 11:28
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pedrodemendez
2017-03-16 13:38
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netroxx
2017-03-17 15:35
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roman
2017-03-20 10:05
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mi
2017-03-20 23:41
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stoplight
2017-03-21 14:20
@simon ?it seems Vanuatu is "cleaning up" its citizenship program with another program to replace the previous?in the news it says its $130,000 but partners on the ground say the reality is government is regulating it to $235,000 for the market?weird?as always..
http://dailypost.vu/news/vt-million-for-honorary-citizenship/article_c81cfd9d-17d6-5d37-a2d4-32496e5ac08e.html
stoplight
2017-03-21 15:08
Right now...we?re offering an all-in for $200,000 for a family of four?main applicant + spouse + 2 dependents?approval in 60 days or less...
simon
2017-03-22 10:07
@stoplight that's interesting! Between Dominica, St Lucia and Vanuatu, which one would you recommend? They all seem to be in the same price range, especially for families.
andrew.m
2017-03-22 11:36
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stoplight
2017-03-22 13:40
@simon .. I would probably put St. Lucia as the best at the moment not only among the three but also the most cost effective in the current countries offering Citizenship-by-Investment programs. Their passport is the strongest among the three countries you mentioned and it also has the best economy among them. Dominica and Vanuatu have pretty much the same level passport. Vanuatu has the distinct characteristic of being one of the few countries in the world to have visa-free access to Russia while Dominica has CARICOM freedom of movement/capital. Vanuatu?s family price is the cheapest among the three while St. Lucia?s solo and couple application are cheaper than Dominica?s even when you include all the fees. Indeed competition in the second citizenship industry is quite fierce nowadays! It would be great to make an article about the second citizenship marketplace now, not only is there an upsurge and strong interest from many people around the world but there are also more choices now than 5 years ago!
stoplight
2017-03-22 13:42
@stoplight uploaded a file: https://freedomsurfer.slack.com/files/stoplight/F4N1YABA8/vanuatu_china_limit.png and commented: The Vanuatu price limit was clarified by our local partners. The price limit is only applicable for China as there is stiff competition from there. Applicants from other countries are lucky since they are entitle to lower fees! :slightly_smiling_face:
aka
2017-03-30 16:31
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ma-x-us
2017-04-02 02:44
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pragmatic
2017-04-05 16:07
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jake
2017-04-11 14:43
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sdfk787
2017-04-16 13:59
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ayotech
2017-04-17 13:53
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brepalco
2017-04-18 06:11
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jake
2017-04-18 15:58
Regarding Chile for potential dual nationality- does anybody know if dual nationals are exempt from conscription there? Chile has compulsory military service from 18 to 45 and my concern would be lumbering my kids with that. Apparently Chile tries to fill the ranks with voluntary sign-ups, and only uses conscription during those years that they don?t have enough volunteers. It seems that even Chilean nationals who live abroad have to report to a consulate regarding military service. I can?t find any information about whether dual nationals are exempt, so I presume not. Anyone know anything?
soniasofia
2017-04-18 17:10
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stoplight
2017-04-19 04:15
Hi @jake ?this is a first i?ve heard of this strictness in Chilean conscription?sounds like how Singapore does it....though admittedly?not too verbal in Chile citizenship?maybe @simon has more info on this?i?ll try to look into this as well out of curiosity :smile:
simon
2017-04-24 07:53
I've heard the same thing as Jake, they try not to use it but every couple years tens of thousands of youths are called to serve in the military. Not nice at all but like in Israel, it is possible to be exempted if enrolled in higher education or on religious ground.
brutus
2017-04-27 11:11
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tkrunning
2017-05-06 19:59
Probably irrelevant for most people here, but as a Norwegian citizen I?m stoked that Norway for the first time in history has a majority of the parliament in favor of allowing dual citizenship?which is good, since there will probably be a vote on the matter this fall. Fingers crossed :slightly_smiling_face:
pragmatic
2017-05-06 20:14
As someone who was born in one place and grew up in another, I find it so strange that many countries don't allow dual citizenship
tkrunning
2017-05-06 20:35
Indeed. Norway is the last holdout of the Nordic countries.
johncitizen
2017-05-09 00:05
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paul
2017-05-09 04:31
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stoplight
2017-05-09 08:03
@pragmatic ?it?s the 21st century?I think all countries should allow dual citizenship?
stoplight
2017-05-09 08:07
I was an on a bit of a look see at http://NomadCapitalist.com just to see whats going on?haven?t visited the website in months?(a number of folks here don?t particularly like the guy heading it but that?s an entirely different story?lols :slightly_smiling_face: ) ?.I was actually quite surprised at what Andrew did?he actually went out and got himself a Comoros citizenship?wow?he must really be raking in some cash?he just threw away $45,000 for a Comoros passport?.if you don?t know where Comoros is?it?s ok?most people don?t either? :smile:
stoplight
2017-05-09 08:14
@simon ..what are your thoughts on this? It this another marketing strategy or a real genuine engagement in getting an economic citizenship?
agalt
2017-05-09 08:31
It was an affiliate deal. He really didnt pay it all
agalt
2017-05-09 08:33
Banks don't like to deal with that passport. I helped the wife of a Syrian guy wirh a Comoros passport get a personal bsbk account in Georgian. The bank asked lots of questions for the first time.
stoplight
2017-05-09 08:41
@agalt ?.still?whether he paid half or even just a few hundred dollars?I don?t see the logic in spending money on a Comoros passport?just my opinion?
agalt
2017-05-09 08:42
Agreed
simon
2017-05-09 09:10
@stoplight You can buy a Comoros passport for as little as 10k USD. Even then, it's a waste of money. I guess Andrew did it as a publicity stunt and to impress some people who might be geographically challenged and who may think the Comoros is in the same league as other island nations like Cayman and the Bahamas.
agalt
2017-05-09 09:12
yup
simon
2017-05-09 09:14
I just had a look at his site, it seems lots of his products have disappeared and he's now focusing entirely on selling consulting services. Really annoying, the "pop up" message that shows up every time I load a page.
simon
2017-05-09 09:15
I almost managed to meet one his is staff in Bangkok earlier this year. Had a friend message her and arrange to meet at a rooftop bar but she pulled out at the last minute. She probably noticed my name in my friend's friend list. Too bad, I'm quite curious about their organisation. They seem to be based in HK now? And Andrew is calling himself CEO hehe
pragmatic
2017-05-09 09:17
@agalt had a pretty bad experience with them
pragmatic
2017-05-09 09:17
from what I read online, they charge a lot, and don't deliver very much for that
agalt
2017-05-09 09:18
they charged me 18k and delivered very little
agalt
2017-05-09 09:19
the work i do now for people is because of the way they treated me. Im not a lawyer, but i like helping people. they treated me awful and delivered very little
agalt
2017-05-09 09:20
i told them that i would pay them to pick me up at the airport in malaysia and all i heard was "no"
maxsuur
2017-05-09 10:51
He is good at creating controversy. And controversy sells
johncitizen
2017-05-10 15:19
Anyone on SMC?
johncitizen
2017-05-10 15:19
They had a forum but closed it down last year, finding this group was good.
brab
2017-05-10 16:28
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princevaliant
2017-05-11 13:48
I am on smc
maxsuur
2017-05-11 13:49
princevaliant: what's SMC?
johncitizen
2017-05-11 14:13
Were you on the forums? I'm still in touch with a lot of people.
princevaliant
2017-05-11 17:10
Sovereign Man Confidential
bmapilot
2017-05-12 08:20
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simonbcr
2017-05-12 09:53
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otkeedca
2017-05-18 05:22
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josh
2017-05-19 01:47
SMC has great info and contacts but it's like the global version of InfoWars, hard to deal with that much "the sky is falling" all the time. I stopped paying attention to the forum the first year though did it get better? Just seemed like a variation on Facebook arguing. :weary: Simon's a great marketer though I respect the hell out of what he did to build his brand.
johncitizen
2017-05-19 04:14
Sure, I saved a lot of the informative forum threads to word docs prior to the forum being clsoed
jase
2017-05-19 08:33
Never even heard of SMC
jase
2017-05-19 08:33
I used to be on the Streber forum but then he had a bunch of technical issues and it was wiped and I couldn't join the next one for some reason. I just gave up. And International Man forum was alright... but has since been binned.
jase
2017-05-19 08:34
This Slack group is pretty great. I'd love to somehow make my way into a group of people at the Streber level - people that work with big money and trusts and what not. Real high end knowledge.
stoplight
2017-05-19 08:37
what is SMC?
jase
2017-05-19 08:38
Ah of course!
jase
2017-05-19 08:38
IIRC he was incorporated in Brunei - interesting choice
globalconsulteurope
2017-05-19 13:56
What the case with SM currently? Their forum was closed or the whole project is shutted down?
bmapilot
2017-05-20 01:16
Simon Black is a very smart individual. When he first started his Sovereign Man email newsletter to be introduced I noticed it was listed in Brunei. But now it is a Ltd. listed in Singapore?under Blacksmith Global Ltd.
Blacksmith Global Ltd.
Publisher of Sovereign Man
30 Cecil Street #19-08
Singapore, Singapore - No State 049712
Singapore
johncitizen
2017-05-20 10:28
Atlas400
johncitizen
2017-05-20 10:29
Thogh I don't think there is a forum associated
johncitizen
2017-05-20 10:30
There are two other forums I know of
johncitizen
2017-05-20 10:30
Investtheworld
johncitizen
2017-05-20 10:31
And international.team
johncitizen
2017-05-20 10:31
Both are mostly inactive
johncitizen
2017-05-20 10:31
This slack group is far more active
stoplight
2017-05-20 17:02
as far as I know?only streber is as active as our freedom surfer slack?
johncitizen
2017-05-22 03:01
streber has a forum?
simon
2017-05-22 07:21
@johncitizen Used to have a forum would be more accurate. Something happened to the old forum and everything was lost. He launched a new forum a while ago but so far it isn't as active as the old one. https://www.streber.st/forums/
swiss_gael
2017-05-22 11:46
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brian
2017-05-23 21:14
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johncitizen
2017-05-24 10:15
Big announcement coming up for eresidents in the next 48 hours
globalconsulteurope
2017-05-24 14:34
If they do it, that will be rocking move
globalconsulteurope
2017-05-24 14:36
Well, primiraly eresidency benefits neighbourhing countries citizsns like Ukraine and Russia
globalconsulteurope
2017-05-24 14:38
Do EU individuala need it for simple company formation and business maintenance?
skat
2017-05-24 17:23
@brian @johncitizen just heard rumours (while staying in Tallinn), that Estonian government agreed with one bank to open accounts remotely. I think @tkrunning was speaking about possibility that government will lower some taxes.
agalt
2017-05-24 17:30
that would be awesome if compliance is easy
tkrunning
2017-05-24 18:35
@skat sure those rumors were not just relating to the Holvi accounts for e-residents? https://about.holvi.com/e-residents/
tkrunning
2017-05-24 18:36
I don?t think they would do this project with Holvi if they had convinced one of the regular Estonian banks to accept remote openings
tkrunning
2017-05-24 18:37
I wouldn?t be surprised if the big announcement is related to the Holvi accounts, even though that?s kinda public already (on Holvi?s website, indexed by Google)
tkrunning
2017-05-24 18:38
Hopefully the announcement will be something that?s actually useful :slightly_smiling_face:
agalt
2017-05-25 07:12
It is an older way of doing business. It lets some places say, "no, we don't want your money or business" so that they can screen people or ask them questions at the last minute.
agalt
2017-05-25 07:16
Same thing with citizenship in some countries, they want to make sure you fit with the cultural and social guidelines before naturalization. If countries naturalized everyone that crawled over a boarder likw they do in the ussa, think about how messed up these gems in emerging markets would be.
stoplight
2017-05-25 08:08
@brian agree with @agalt ?sadly the influential powers lord over these small countries that offer citizenship via investment/donation and as a small dot on a map, they try to maintain good relations with the bigger countries to survive. The Caribbean islands of Dominica and recently St. Lucia are the cheapest ?useable? citizenship/passports which will allow you to travel decently, open bank accounts, do business in the Caribbean region, etc. The $100K price tag may be expensive but for some, it is worth it. As a Caribbean citizen, you can just pop up in any of the Caribbean countries and open a personal bank account without much difficulty. In many of these countries, there are also no exchange controls so you can bring your money in and out within reasonable amounts of course without issues of course..
maxsuur
2017-05-25 08:08
Give them time to catch up
stoplight
2017-05-25 08:10
Now, if you just want to have another passport, a real and legitimate one that can also be used to travel, but with very limited visa-free access, there?s the Comoros citizenship program which will is officially the cheapest program in the world that anyone can get for $45,000 ?.without much hassle and can be done in a couple of months..
stoplight
2017-05-25 08:11
@brian oh yes most definitely, but some rules are different for ?foreigners?
stoplight
2017-05-25 08:11
@brian that?s exactly what Comoros did? :slightly_smiling_face:
stoplight
2017-05-25 08:12
Comoros has visa-free access to about 40 countries? ?mostly under the radar places as well?
stoplight
2017-05-25 08:13
sorry 48 countries visa-free:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Comorian_citizens
stoplight
2017-05-25 08:13
sorry 48 countries visa-free:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Comorian_citizens
stoplight
2017-05-25 08:15
Singapore, HK and even Malaysia and Philippines you can enter without visa and for a few other but definitely no visa free for the EU?after all, the Comoros is an African country.
stoplight
2017-05-25 08:18
@brian go ahead and google around :slightly_smiling_face: ?but a word of caution though?although this is cheap passport/citizenship?if you want to use it to open bank accounts?suggest you actually visit a few visa-free countries first before using it at a bank..that way, not only can you be sure it works but also when you show it at the bank, it has some ?credibility? as a passport?
stoplight
2017-05-25 08:20
yes?for sure once you get passports from those countries, they would be much better than the Comoros? :smile:
stoplight
2017-05-25 08:21
From what I know, you can get in 2 months?even less probably?
stoplight
2017-05-25 08:22
yup! :slightly_smiling_face: ?but maybe for those with some extra cash to spare?haha?I personally travel on a Dominican passport?from Fiji to Canada and all over Asia?.and i?ve had no problems with it.. :smile:
stoplight
2017-05-25 08:23
I imagine traveling on a Comoros passport would be a bit more challenging?
emondpph
2017-05-25 08:39
has joined #citizenship
simon
2017-05-25 09:17
Heck even opening a bank account on a Comoros passport will be challenging. Respectable banks will see it and either burst out laughing while showing you the door or they will ask for your real passport. We could ask Andrew what his experience as a Comoros citizen has been like :stuck_out_tongue:
simon
2017-05-25 09:18
@brian The cheapest / easiest way to get a second passport is if you qualify in some European country due to your ancestry. A surprising number of people in the US/Canada do.
danz
2017-05-25 09:23
That would be great
simon
2017-05-25 09:26
There are a few countries where it's quite easy. In NZ you can get residency by starting a business and investing 100K NZD in it (around 70K USD). In the Netherlands it's 4500 EUR for Americans. Slovenia is 7500 EUR.
simon
2017-05-25 09:28
But yeah for most countries it's a real pain. Some also have ridiculous requirements for citizenship, such as living 10-20 years in the country before becoming eligible.
johncitizen
2017-05-25 09:32
Back on the Comoros thing, anyone research trade restrictions, etc? Government grants for business
johncitizen
2017-05-25 09:38
That's the problem with grants, sales people just factor it into revised pricing :/
johncitizen
2017-05-25 09:38
The best business to be in is one where you take people's PIC grant money for business services ;p
simon
2017-05-25 09:54
That almost sounds like a welfare program for entrepreneurs!
simon
2017-05-25 10:04
It's a very delicate balancing act, what they are doing in Singapore. Lots of government debt and their shift towards high value industries is not happening as quickly as they hoped. I think they'll be alright but lets just say that they have a smaller margin of error than most other countries. And unlike HK, they do not have a "rich uncle" to bail them out if shit hits the fan.
jase
2017-05-25 10:33
@simon is your money on HK being a success vs Singapore? Say if you were going to invest in one country vs the other? I was under the impression many HK businesses would be hurt with the rise of Shenzen (shipping)
simon
2017-05-25 10:48
I see a great future for HK, if they play their cards right. They are going for full commercial integration with the mainland but they will keep a good degree of autonomy regarding taxation and law. It is an ideal situation really. Imagine New York or London having this degree of autonomy...
jase
2017-05-25 10:50
Awesome. What do you see the growing demand in?
jase
2017-05-25 10:50
I suppose property if people continue to move there for lifestyle choice
simon
2017-05-25 10:58
I see most of the growth being in industries related to the mainland. Wealth management is a big one, trade finance, quality assurance (having your product certified as safe is a huge deal in China right now), tourism, logistics, education (HK has some of the best universities in Asia) etc.
jase
2017-05-25 11:02
Good info. I know my father in law is talking of importing Australian health food to China due to the quality perception. Apparently it's quite hard to be a foreigner and do the importing though
architect
2017-05-25 12:27
has joined #citizenship
johncitizen
2017-05-25 14:39
@jase are you Australian?
jase
2017-05-25 14:40
Maybe :zipper_mouth_face: @johncitizen
jase
2017-05-25 14:40
Would you hold it against me? :slightly_smiling_face:
jase
2017-05-25 14:42
haha :slightly_smiling_face: yeah I am Australian
jase
2017-05-25 14:42
Why do you ask?
johncitizen
2017-05-25 14:43
I am too
johncitizen
2017-05-25 14:43
Moving back to Perth for a while soon
johncitizen
2017-05-25 14:44
I'm from central QLD originally
johncitizen
2017-05-25 14:44
Spent half my life in Brisbane and some years in Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne.
johncitizen
2017-05-25 14:44
First time living in Perth proper
johncitizen
2017-05-25 14:45
We'll just rent as we have a project in Africa next year as well
jase
2017-05-25 14:45
What sort of project?
johncitizen
2017-05-25 15:40
two... One relates to a mine and the other to cave diving :slightly_smiling_face:
jase
2017-05-25 16:56
Nice one @johncitizen. I have a friend with a safari camp in Kenya, know a few from Botswana and spoke a bit earlier in the year to the guy who runs Nomad Convoy
johncitizen
2017-05-26 03:44
Nice
pieter.j.becker
2017-05-28 14:28
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simon
2017-05-29 11:13
Yeah for sure something fishy is going on here, no one would buy this product at this price. A quick google search reveals that it sells for around 250USD in HK...
mep757
2017-05-30 10:56
has joined #citizenship
c-bass
2017-05-31 15:36
has joined #citizenship
nickc
2017-06-01 07:53
has joined #citizenship
johncitizen
2017-06-05 05:17
Got a follow up on Comoros.
johncitizen
2017-06-05 05:18
Nomad guy's lawyer wants $20000 to process paperwork and $5000 for diligence checks.
johncitizen
2017-06-05 05:18
Then $45000 to Comoros Gov
johncitizen
2017-06-05 05:19
Too steep on the legal agent fees
agalt
2017-06-05 08:36
Thats insane @johncitizen
agalt
2017-06-05 08:49
Hes being sued in Georgia for breach of employment contract. The Ukrainian / American girl put a story in Georgia today about it.
pragmatic
2017-06-05 08:49
haha what?
agalt
2017-06-05 10:23
The best thing those of us in tge industry can do is provide results for reasonable prices so the entire industry does not get clouded by the business practices he uses.
agalt
2017-06-05 10:26
Avoiding a cease and desist letter is another fine line. A friend crossed that one and had a lawsuit filed against him after he came out on a radio show and discussed the dichotomy of: image vs business practice and actual income.
stoplight
2017-06-05 13:22
@johncitizen ..wow..seriously thinking about Comoros eh? Don?t go to that useless Andrew Henderson..you?ll just be throwing your money away? :slightly_smiling_face: ?if you?re seriously considering Comoros..i?m sure @simon has the proper list of authorized agents who would probably charge you less than that. As far as I know..they company authorized by the government of Comoros to handle the entire program is based in Dubai. The company name escapes me right now, i?ll dig my notes and try to look for it. I?m just curious though, why Comoros? Any of the Caribbean islands are much better?
simon
2017-06-05 16:13
Yes, I recommend staying away from Comoros. It's pretty much the armpit of the economic citizenship programs.
simon
2017-06-05 16:14
Better go to Dominica, St Lucia or Vanuatu.
benjamin
2017-06-06 04:57
has joined #citizenship
stoplight
2017-06-06 05:29
@brian ?St. lucia and Dominica at $100k for a solo application?typically still at 3-4 months?but so far St. Lucia is working faster nowadays :slightly_smiling_face: ?
simon
2017-06-06 07:58
@brian @stoplight will be better placed to answer questions about economic citizenship but as far as I know all the programs require you to go through an authorised representative (you can find lists directly on the respective gov sites).
simon
2017-06-06 07:59
As for whether the cost is justified, this depends entirely on your own circumstances. For most people, probably not.
agalt
2017-06-06 09:26
Cost is relative. For all of my complaints about NC, i don't have a problem with him charging me 10k usd for the georgian residency and citizenship application. Sometimes you just pay the fee and move on with your life instead of spending a month researching and running around a place you don't know well. Also paying more for food at a nice restaurant introduces you to very interesting ideas that people have. Some of us spend lots of time on planes, and that time can be spent well due to the law of attraction : Rupert Sheldrake (metaphysics) - edited for spelling -
simon
2017-06-06 11:01
He charges way too much for his services. In most countries it's very easy to figure out how to get residency, no need for external help. The only service that is genuinely useful is that of a local translator and that cost very little for 2-3 days.
jase
2017-06-06 11:09
+1 translation was a big deal for me
jase
2017-06-06 11:10
But to be honest I still pay someone to do the running around for me. Cost me EUR160 to have someone bring me some forms, get my signatures, then wait in line with the government to lodge them and bring me the certificate back - money well spent if you're busy building a business.
jase
2017-06-06 11:21
yes that's true
jase
2017-06-06 11:22
I think it also depends a lot on whether or not you'll physically be there
jase
2017-06-06 11:22
We paid some people to take care of our setup so the paperwork could keep rolling while we were off travelling
jase
2017-06-06 11:22
Had to give them powers at a notary but it saved a lot of courier-ing/lost time
jase
2017-06-06 11:29
Nah Andorra
architect
2017-06-06 11:31
nomad capitalist is a cheap simon black knockoff, he even held an event in the same city as simon to try and confuse people as to which event they should go to and knocked off a few other things, simon ranted about it on a conference call once without mentioning his name but it was clear whom he meant... stick to simon black i think!
jase
2017-06-06 11:32
I like Simon Black's stuff but.... do you think there's an element of this stuff being very hard to either provide a great service at a low price, or not come off as scammy? Doug Casey seemed to be pretty legit for a while there too, but now is 100% fearmonger
jase
2017-06-06 11:33
LOL first time I've been to his website in a while, check this out for headlines:
Feeding Frenzy
The US is headed for a ?really ugly disaster.?
Nick Giambruno: War on Cash Still Coming to The US? Globalism in Retreat?
This Upcoming ?Black Swan? Event Could Wipe Out Your Life Savings
Here?s What Will Eventually Tear the World?s Biggest Economy Apart
The Father of the Euro: The Currency ?Will Collapse?
This Common Investing Mistake Could Cost You Everything
Ron Paul, Doug Casey, and Nick Giambruno on The End of Globalism
josh
2017-06-06 11:34
It's because fear sells.
jase
2017-06-06 11:34
:joy:
architect
2017-06-06 11:34
yeah simon is borderline, some of his sales letters are definitely very fear based
architect
2017-06-06 11:34
but for the most part he's always trying to tone that down a bit... i think he was split testing copy when he did that scare monger stuff... i saw that from him in 2012...
architect
2017-06-06 11:35
anyway i just get info from him and then figure out myself how to actually do everything, i mean i do hire consultants to do it but i find them by befriending expats, not by paying some internet marketer lol
jase
2017-06-06 11:35
yeah for sure
jase
2017-06-06 11:35
Simon being the exception :stuck_out_tongue:
architect
2017-06-06 11:36
by simon i mean simon BLACK not our simon :stuck_out_tongue: haha
jase
2017-06-06 11:36
Yeah I know, I was having a laugh
architect
2017-06-06 11:36
all good lol
josh
2017-06-06 11:37
Befriending expats on the ground gets you more accurate info probably as well. I know some of the info I've seen from these guys turns out not to be the case if you spend more than a couple days in a place.
architect
2017-06-06 11:40
yeah it'd be hard for them to really know all the best info on so many different countries... someone who's been on the ground for the past 20 years is bound to know more, and have a great network to tap into... that's how i've always done it
jase
2017-06-06 11:41
Most importantly, that person on the ground has likely been through multiple agents/lawyers/accountants/etc to find the good ones. It's a good way to get in.
agalt
2017-06-06 11:41
@architect agree. Its a case of buyers remorse after the fact, but you move on after it and learn so it does not happen the next time
jase
2017-06-06 11:42
It's the rite of passage - same as flying all the way to HK only to be told told where to go from ever bank in the city. :thinking_face:
simon
2017-06-06 12:24
He's got a trustworthy name anyway :stuck_out_tongue:
simon
2017-06-06 12:28
@brian I'm surprised by that, they were recommended to me
simon
2017-06-06 12:30
Do you know a good lawyer in UY that I could recommend on the article page. I listed Fisher but if they are unreliable I'll replace the recommendation
simon
2017-06-06 12:32
I'm not looking for myself but for the Uruguay article on the site.
josh
2017-06-06 12:34
I have a good connection who lived there for several years I'm sure he has a lawyer to recommend, I will ask
josh
2017-06-06 12:35
Did you like it @brian ?
josh
2017-06-06 12:35
I was just down there a few weeks ago and I don't get the draw personally. But it's not summer so being essentially a ghost town everywhere might have played into it.
josh
2017-06-06 12:37
Yeah it seems boring as hell, but kinda like dying Europe, apart from the new Trump Tower haha
josh
2017-06-06 12:37
Didn't realize the bureaucracy was so bad though
josh
2017-06-06 12:40
Really? I didn't get the petty crime vibe, but it is LatAm
josh
2017-06-06 12:40
But like compared to centroamerica
josh
2017-06-06 12:41
Haha maybe that's why security freaked out when we walked up to Trump Tower at night :sweat_smile:
josh
2017-06-06 12:42
Yeah exactly that's what it felt like, an old people place
josh
2017-06-06 12:43
I was just there for a few days of exploring with a chick from BA, no interest in the place for anything else. Punta was a ghost town though, couldn't even find a restaurant open
josh
2017-06-06 12:43
We had to eat at the hotel each night
josh
2017-06-06 12:44
I asked my buddy I will let you know if he has anyone to recommend. He still has friends loving there so probably
josh
2017-06-06 12:44
*living
tkrunning
2017-06-08 16:14
I wonder why there?s nothing like Trustpilot for offshore service providers? If there was, I?m sure the likes of Andrew Henderson would see a lot less business. :confused:
maxsuur
2017-06-08 18:16
Give it time
jase
2017-06-08 18:26
trusttrustee
jase
2017-06-08 18:44
So true
maxsuur
2017-06-08 19:08
So fire them @brian
josh
2017-06-09 13:54
So @brian apparently FS and Juan Fischer used to be good, but pissed a lot of people off. My buddy has residency there and said "not sure why anyone would want Uruguayan residency at this point...it's worthless. You will NEVER get the passport, it's a shitshow". fwiw
He said he'd ask around to people still there but seems like that ship might have sailed.
josh
2017-06-09 13:55
Cool I hope it works out better then good luck!
josh
2017-06-09 13:56
Timing is of the essence on these things I guess
stoplight
2017-06-09 15:33
If you?re looking for LatAm residency..Paraguay is still open..so far anyway?and from what I gather on the ground..it is indeed possible to get citizenship after some time?typically 4-5 years of being a resident...coupled with some worthwhile investment say like a business and real estate, speak conversational spanish plus a good lawyer?you can get it cheaper than any of the current citizenship by investment programs.?you?ll just have to wait a few years of course?
maxsuur
2017-06-09 19:06
@stoplight introduced me to a very helpful local agent for that matter, highly recommended if any of you want to make the transatlantic leap
tatelev
2017-06-09 20:01
paraguayan women are hot stuff
tatelev
2017-06-09 20:02
btw: I have argentinian citizenship by birth and it?s more of a burden for me. I wish I could get rid of it
tatelev
2017-06-09 20:03
if I could only offer it to you guys?
tatelev
2017-06-09 22:08
I have spanish nationality, sure
tatelev
2017-06-09 22:09
But when I go to Argentina using my spanish passport they ask too many questions, just that
tatelev
2017-06-09 22:09
Small nuisances
tatelev
2017-06-09 22:10
Not burden, used the wrong word. Just nuisance:blush:
gregor
2017-06-10 15:08
has joined #citizenship
danielabagnale
2017-06-12 03:10
has joined #citizenship
stoplight
2017-06-13 00:28
@stoplight uploaded a file: https://freedomsurfer.slack.com/files/stoplight/F5SMCNSUC/free_movement_indefinite_stay.jpg
stoplight
2017-06-13 00:29
Lols....well?.this is something different.. :smile: :joy:
rtiagm
2017-06-13 02:20
has joined #citizenship
harvie
2017-06-13 02:46
Damn it feels good to be a gangster.
stoplight
2017-06-13 10:36
Hahahah! :joy:
david99
2017-06-15 20:48
has joined #citizenship
stoneagezen
2017-06-15 21:06
has joined #citizenship
otkeedca
2017-06-16 04:01
has anyone here actually completed the "french citizenship hack" (https://www.freedomsurfer.com/france) as a Canadian? Or know of anybody who has?
brutus
2017-06-16 07:08
@otkeedca French born, I did not try that hack but Embassy told me few month ago naturalization process currently more around 12+ month. More controls than before due to the various international security events
brutus
2017-06-16 07:13
@brian :joy: :+1:
Myself I left 19 years ago.... and they keep asking me when I will go back.... :wink:
brutus
2017-06-16 07:13
EXACTLY
johncitizen
2017-06-16 07:13
I'm contracted to a French company.
johncitizen
2017-06-16 07:14
In Korea
johncitizen
2017-06-16 07:14
Most of my coworkers in this company are French but very few of them still live in France
brutus
2017-06-16 07:18
I would say it is a bit like the US people renouncing their nationality. Not a huge quantity but strongly increasing number. When I left South of France, everyone thought I was completely mad. Now when I visit once a year, everyone tell me that "I was so lucky"... Last couple of years we have seen lot of people selling their French business and moving abroad to start new life (lot of them in Florida).
brutus
2017-06-16 07:19
But this being said, for many people French passport is a very good opportunity to have access to many other countries
brutus
2017-06-16 07:20
Only if interested, it will take time, money and effort :wink:
brutus
2017-06-16 07:29
@ brian I think something got lost in translation. Agree with you, no reason to renounce to French passport (unlike US) as it gives access to many countries. Relocating to another country "is enough": French tax very famous worldwide for being "crazy" and aggressive, must be carreful with proper setup to avoid issues
brutus
2017-06-16 11:23
@brian Yes, you really need to show strong ties. Especially if you are located in an "offshore" location which for France administration is almost any country (where you pay less tax). For example Belgium (high tax on salaries but none on things like dividends I believe). And if you go to the famous one, you must really have a very strong case. Also, you need to give up all estate, bank account, holding, etc... that you have in France or the administration consider you are temporary away (vacation ??) and will come back. They also set-up an "Exit Tax" applicable up to 5 years after you left on capital gain (some business owners were relocating to Belgium before selling their business). Normally after France you need to stay for a few years in a country not seen too much as "offshore", but I think it is the case also with other juriductions.
otkeedca
2017-06-16 11:34
yikes, maybe I'll reconsider that plan. I'm just after the EU citizenship
pragmatic
2017-06-16 11:39
@otkeedca oif youve never lived in france you wouldnt have this problem
otkeedca
2017-06-16 11:42
but I would need to live there to become a resident before applying for citizenship, and once I become a citizen and want to leave, wouldn't I be subject to the tax?
brutus
2017-06-16 11:43
@pragmatic @otkeedca Sorry I don't know about that case. Maybe would be easier if you become French rather than born.
brutus
2017-06-16 11:44
@brian "famous one": Switzerland, Luxembourg, Malta, Cyprus for EU and all the other around the world (Belize, Seychelles, Panama....)
brutus
2017-06-16 11:48
it is not official rule that I read about this, only info from connections, friends, etc... over the year. France regularly talks about offshore countries on their black list but I heard in past a company in France having one of the share holder resident in Luxembourg was "strangely" getting a lot of audits from tax authority. Or my brother who moved to US 3 years ago with wife and kids is now selling a small flat he bought for my dad because French admin consider he is still living there (in the small flat with wife and kids)...
brutus
2017-06-16 11:52
@brian Exactly!
2 weeks ago another factory about to go bankrupt was occupied by unions (communist) and employees. They again trapped it with gaz bottles all around the factory to put more pressure on the government during the "negotiations" (private held company not having enough clients/business). That's normal in France when employees/unions do this, nobody go to jail....
brutus
2017-06-16 12:12
@brian if you only want the passport you should probably consider it, why not? You are not born French so probably bit different situation.
brutus
2017-06-16 12:30
I am not trying to scare everyone, that hack from Simon sounds really interesting anyway. If I wanted an EU passport, I would definitely have a serious look at it!
There is a recent fiscal status for freelancers with "low" income called "auto entrepreneur" which seems popular and interesting at the moment. Less tax and administration apparently.
roman
2017-06-17 00:06
Lots of people from France in Montreal too.
roman
2017-06-17 00:07
I'm a bit out of the EU geo politics. But what's wrong in France? Overreacting, overblown government with regulations and immigration? Does that sum it up? Or are there bigger problems?
brutus
2017-06-17 06:54
Well... you know the old saying: "Wonderful country France . . . pity about the French". Nothing new! :wink:
stolzlos
2017-06-17 08:35
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evl4r
2017-06-17 12:07
has joined #citizenship
chaostar
2017-06-20 18:43
has joined #citizenship
fish
2017-06-21 04:59
has joined #citizenship
pascal
2017-06-21 11:26
has joined #citizenship
v
2017-06-21 11:38
has joined #citizenship
mikeseo
2017-06-21 12:11
has joined #citizenship
pascal
2017-06-21 12:20
I'm french. The French people are no longer sovereign. The European Union and the banks make the law in France.
agalt
2017-06-21 12:24
western europe is no longer soverign. Eastern Europe has much more freedom with the implied cultural unwillingess to follow some laws: taxes, road rules, gun laws. Money buys more freedom in Eastern europe per Euro spent. It is difficult to have sympathy for people in the states that go over to western europe and complain about the various problems (which i will not mention since they are social and religious) However, cultural identity is preserved in the less politically correct eastern and southern sections in Europe. (Greetings from Skopje, Macedonia)
pascal
2017-06-21 12:50
France and Germany want to create a European economic government. Why ? To create the European tax. Why ? To bail out the over-indebted European states. But as the debt of States is designed to be inextinguishable, this tax will only increase. So in less than 5 years, the residents of Malta, Bulgaria, Gibraltar, Hungary, ... As for Georgia, she wants and will enter the European Union. Conclusion: Western Europe is already an administrative and fiscal hell. But, in less than 5 years, it will be all Europe then it will be the turn of Georgia. So the FreedomSurfers will have to settle in Southeast Asia or Central America or South America. There are other problems that will happen in Europe from 2018 onwards. They are so serious that I can not talk about it. Stay safe !
pascal
2017-06-21 12:51
Omission : So in less than 5 years, the residents of Malta, Bulgaria, Gibraltar, Hungary ... will pay the European tax.
pascal
2017-06-21 13:20
I hope you are right, but the European Union is all or nothing. Can not get an a la carte menu. This is the reason why the English have just emerged from it.
pascal
2017-06-21 13:21
EUSSR
pascal
2017-06-21 13:22
The Georgians have just obtained free movement in the European Union. They want to join the European Union and NATO.
danz
2017-06-21 14:20
I expected that to, but then they voted in The Netherlands and in France for the next elections, and it didn't seem that way in the end. Now they will probably make it impossible for a country to leave the EU, so none will do it.
skat
2017-06-21 14:25
@skat has left the channel
agalt
2017-06-21 15:09
What military? Who wants to fight for a lost cause?
agalt
2017-06-21 15:28
80-90% of Georgia's and Bulgaria's economy is under the table or off the books. Does the EU seriously expect that they can make them pay taxes?
pragmatic
2017-06-21 17:14
Ah come on, if 90% of bulgarian economy was undeclared it would have a gdp of $500 Billion :wink:
pragmatic
2017-06-21 17:14
Which it sure doesn't look like.
agalt
2017-06-21 17:28
fair enough. point taken. The importance of the post was cultural dissregard for the rules and regulations.
millnmd
2017-06-23 04:34
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2017-06-26 00:15
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2017-06-29 14:51
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2017-07-04 13:34
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2017-07-04 13:56
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2017-07-04 19:02
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stoplight
2017-07-05 01:01
Here?s a special report?.something hot of the press about Citizenship by Investment?nice comprehensive research printed by the folks at Financial Times?also seems to be a fair report?almost anyway?haha?still worth a read for those who are interested or merely curious.. :slightly_smiling_face:
http://cbiindex.com/
stoplight
2017-07-05 01:02
stoplight
2017-07-05 01:03
Here?s the actual PDF file so you don?t have to fill up the email crap they?re asking for?
janemac
2017-07-05 12:10
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agalt
2017-07-08 11:07
Recent development in Georgia regarding citizenship: Some EU and North American national who will remain nameless was recently denied citizenship here for very good reasons. The Georgian goverment has you fill out a long form with various questions: income, marital status, military service, etc... So with that upfront. This person failed to show his personal and cultural connections to georgia, as well as time spent here. They didnt seem to care about 6 figure property ownership in his home country, and they didn't seem to care that he thought Georgia was going in the right direction politically and financially
agalt
2017-07-08 11:11
the short version of this is: Those of you who want to be residents and citizens of this country need to actually have some physical presence here and cultural connections. This is not some typical: uraguay, paraguay, malta, belieze, costa rica, etc residency/ citizenship country. They want to see that you put your money where your mouth is as well as your cultural connections and friends here. So, to those of you that have sent many direct messages about citizenship, residency, etc in Georgia... YOU NEED TO LIVE HERE and have friends and a presence here. (hope this clears up some questions others have asked, and may ask in the future)
agalt
2017-07-08 11:12
He picked a less reputable law firm and consultant to work with that will also remain nameless.
pragmatic
2017-07-08 11:13
@agalt Seems to be several sources on the internet claiming that: For high net worth individuals, i.e., persons who either hold property valued at more than GEL 3 million (about EUR 1,2 million) or have annual income of more than GEL 200.000 (about EUR 80.000), more liberal tax residence rules apply.
agalt
2017-07-08 11:14
of course. Georgia wants good people here for economic and cultural reasons
agalt
2017-07-08 11:14
this country needs help from people who will teach georgians how to do business honestly and honorably.
agalt
2017-07-08 11:15
They racially and religiously screen people as well. There are no appologies about this.
agalt
2017-07-08 11:17
The nationalist party took power awhile back and they made is very very difficult for foreigners to own land. They support traditional values as well as lower taxes.
pragmatic
2017-07-08 11:24
Which means that at least to be a tax resident (not citizenship), you don't need to actually spent much time there if you meet those conditions?
agalt
2017-07-08 11:27
you should follow your country of citizenship rules about tax residency. Georgia seems to be quite flexible, however I live here a great deal of the year. It is where I am happy.
alexanderhay
2017-07-10 06:20
Residency vs Citizenship. There are a number of confusing options out there for "high net worth" people who want residency. Frankly, I don't know why you would bother with most of them since they don't offer anything that the simple employee/entrepreneur route doesn't offer. In regards to citizenship, as I have suggested for some time, the government is under considerable pressure from the EU to stop the program or at least slow it down.
etperth
2017-07-13 08:16
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2017-07-13 10:09
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archivebot
2017-07-20 07:21
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ivo
2017-07-24 08:46
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yannerbp
2017-07-25 22:46
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stoplight
2017-07-27 04:51
Want a Russian citizenship? Just study hard! :joy:
alex1
2017-07-27 11:06
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roman
2017-07-27 14:06
Huh, I wonder which countries they?ll be attracting nowadays. Back in the day, it was common to get people from other communist countries to come study, e.g. from Cuba.
stoplight
2017-07-27 14:44
They?ll be attracting Trump supporters! lols! :joy:
bitesak
2017-07-28 17:39
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stoplight
2017-07-29 18:52
Living high caught this guy?he was just spending way too much for his own good?sadly?he left bad taste in the citizenship by investment world?Canada obviously knew this was going down as they cut their visa-free access for all Antigua & Barbuda passport holders on June 27, just a few days before the AlphaBay shutdown?
https://antiguaobserver.com/antiguan-and-barbudan-cip-citizen-in-major-us-justice-department-case/
stoplight
2017-07-29 18:56
agalt
2017-07-29 18:59
YIKES!
svending
2017-07-31 14:40
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2017-08-07 09:15
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c-bass
2017-09-22 08:19
Somebody mentioned somewhere.. actually didn't I read that on FS itself? @simon? That as a French-Canadian getting citizenship in France is quick and easy thanks to some special treaty or something. In a nutshell, you could apply for long-term residency in France under a freelancer visa or other, as long as it's renewable for more than 1 year. Then 18 months in you can initiate the naturalization process.. and from there it seemed to indicate it wouldn't be long (years) before you got a full-on french dual citizenship.
Sounds too good to be true.. I was wondering.. does anyone have experience or actually knows someone who went through all this and can confirm anything? I couldn't find anything else on the web at all..
otkeedca
2017-09-23 06:11
I did a bit of searching on the web in french, and from the sounds of it it wasn't as easy as it seems. But there isn't much written about it online it seems
bns200
2017-09-25 00:42
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nort17
2017-09-25 08:28
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ianpaul
2017-09-25 09:12
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brutus
2017-09-25 12:25
@c-bass I believe you are referring to this hack from FS?
https://www.freedomsurfer.com/france/
andra_korb
2017-09-26 16:43
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stoplight
2017-09-27 15:31
@stoplight uploaded a file: https://freedomsurfer.slack.com/files/U2HCRC7S9/F7APY9V55/notice_2017_hurricane_relief_fund_saint_kitts.jpg
stoplight
2017-09-27 15:32
St. Kitts just dropped the bomb?USD$150,000 gets you tax free citizenship for you, the wife and your kids!
mikeseo
2017-09-27 15:45
:grinning:
mikeseo
2017-09-27 15:46
did Dominica Antigua St Lucia etc get hit?
stoplight
2017-09-27 15:52
Dominica is ravaged? :cry: ?it will take years?probably a decade for the country to recover?.Antigua is fine..its other island of Barbuda is desolated but population and buildings there were very small?less than 2000 people lived on Barbuda?actually St. Kitts didn?t get much damage?just some few bumps and bruises?.so this fund is actually undermining its neighbors who actually need the funds from the citizenship program?..St. Lucia and Grenada were not in the path of any of the hurricanes?its business as usual in those countries?.
mikeseo
2017-09-28 03:17
Is there any advantage of $150k St Kitts versus $100k Dominica/St Lucia? Or is St Kitts just doing it to beat $200k Antigua & Barbuda/Grenada?
haralabob2
2017-09-28 08:17
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stoplight
2017-09-28 14:06
@mikeseo For a single person application? I wouldn?t recommend St. Kitts?no distinct advantage. For a family it?s the cheapest. If you?re a single applicant, current best deal is St. Lucia?passport is stronger than Grenada and Dominica and the country itself is pretty awesome. Slightly larger in size than the other islands, has a bigger population, has lots of possible on the ground opportunities and has the best economy in the entire Eastern Caribbean. Some downsides to St. Lucia is that the country has territorial taxation so if you live & work there, you may have to pay taxes (but there?s a legal loophole)?also the citizenship is not ?passable? which means if you have kids in the future, they can?t get it unlike the others where you can pass citizenship on to future generations even if you don?t live there. Upside is if the wife gives birth in St. Lucia, your child can get citizenship. Accessibility is also a good advantage in St. Lucia?it has two airports with almost daily flights to U.S. & Europe and the rest of region.
stoplight
2017-09-28 14:08
And yes you?re absolutely right..St. Kitts is undermining the other countries with its family pricing scheme.
ahawkins
2017-09-30 04:00
damn ... 100K is not that _much_ really
stoplight
2017-09-30 05:37
@ahawkins If you?re looking at a long term solution, yup, it?s a good investment. Though there?s a lot of negativity in the news like of course these recent hurricanes and all and how big nations squeeze these small islands?the real positive stuff are often taken for granted. A good example would be the indefinite freedom of movement between these countries. If you?re a citizen of one of these Eastern Caribbean countries, say Dominica, you can simply hop on a plane or a boat to one of the other islands using the local drivers license, no passport needed. And if you do decide to live in another country say for example Antigua & Barbuda or St. Kitts & Nevis, which just so happens to have no personal income taxes like the UAE and many other tax incentives?establishing permanent residency is as simple as renting an apartment and a few registrations with the local gov?t. and voila, you?re done. And these are just the immediate positive things. There are numerous benefits for CARICOM residents and Commonwealth citizens. Simon has listed some advantages on the website. So yeah, if you?re looking at a long term solution, the 100k is not much really. It will eventually pay for itself in a few years with what you can save. Some folks like Roger Ver of http://Bitcoin.com have gone as far as renouncing their U.S. citizenship and has been a citizen of St. Kitts & Nevis for several years now while calling Japan his permanent home.
stoplight
2017-09-30 05:49
Oh yeah..just to add..some recent positive developments for some of these countries?last July?St. Kitts and St. Lucia got visa-free access to Taiwan?and just last week during the U.S. General Assembly?Russia gave visa-free access to St. Kitts & Grenada?..for Grenada?it?s now a win-win-win because they?re the only program with visa-free access to both China and Russia plus also the ability to apply for an E-2 business visa with the U.S?.if you would want to do that?haha.. :smile: ?so yeah?if you go beyond the negative stuff and dig deep?there are really lots of positive movements for these small countries and their citizenship programs?.
harvie
2017-09-30 08:46
@stoplight I just thought of a great FB ad to get people to sign up "Made millions buying bitcoin but can't cash out because of the Tax man? Click here to get your St Kits residency and withdraw our bitcoins tax free forever". That might be stupid enough to work actually :smile:
danz
2017-09-30 08:47
I think it even could work:sweat_smile:
maxsuur
2017-09-30 08:57
You can even make millions from those who made millions by giving them an option to actually unlock their millions
stoplight
2017-09-30 08:58
Actually?a similar project made by Roger Ver dubbed as ?Bitcoins For Passport? was made in 2014?got shut down coz St. Kitts didn?t want to have trouble with the powers that be?hahah?of course?nowadays you can circumvent that if you can find ways to exchange BTC to USD without hassle?
danz
2017-09-30 08:58
I think it?s quite a issue for many people
stoplight
2017-09-30 08:59
It is? :slightly_smiling_face: ?it?s actually a project that we have for the organization i?m working with?in fact, a Barbados IT firm wants to offer a unified ICO for the Caribbean?
danz
2017-09-30 09:00
Hopefully I get to the point I need consultancy for that:sweat_smile:
stoplight
2017-09-30 09:00
@danz ?i?m a message away?lols! :joy:
stoplight
2017-09-30 09:05
actually folks?(and this may sound like a shameless plug so please don?t take offense) ... :smile: ?.I was actually working on a plan with Simon before he went MIA?..our firm has found ways to accept Bitcoin to apply for a Vanuatu Citizenship?..because there they?re less stringent with the whole BTC angle and digital currencies in general compared to the Caribbean programs?they?ve got territorial taxation instead of no income tax?but the Vanuatu passport gives you visa-free access to Russia as well? :smile:
silviu_ruj
2017-10-06 17:27
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rwinorganization
2017-10-08 11:11
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stoplight
2017-10-10 03:56
BOOM! And they drop this! :smile:
stoplight
2017-10-10 03:57
maxsuur
2017-10-10 05:52
Wow!
yura-by
2017-10-10 12:58
Selling big amount of bitcoin and sending it to bank can lead to problems with bank and locking account. Using bitcoin directly is much more convenient. And if everybody starts accepting it, price will skyrocket
yura-by
2017-10-10 13:02
@brian Yes, there are options. But sending bitcoin directly is way easier. You do not depend on anybody, send transaction (almost instantly) and just wait 6 confirmations (about 1 hour) and you transaction almost set in stone
danz
2017-10-10 13:05
Yes, but they can sell it easily, not everyone can really.
yura-by
2017-10-10 13:05
It is fine if they just using bitpay. I do not care if they hodling or not. But what is important, that i can spend my bitcoin in convenient way
yura-by
2017-10-10 13:07
if tomorrow suddenly everybody start using bitpay, it will great leap forward
yura-by
2017-10-10 13:08
of course this is not likely to happen
stoplight
2017-10-10 19:33
@brian For those that are using or at least quite familiar with digital currencies like most of us here on this forum, this is definitely nothing spectacular. In the traditional business world where banks ?rule?, this is a momentous move by a country. Opening its government to the digital currency space is a move forward and basically announcing that their country is open for digital business. I think that?s the main goal really of this announcement, to have digital currencies go beyond the limitations and control of traditional banks and the countries that control them. :slightly_smiling_face:
stoplight
2017-10-11 08:39
@brian At this point, I don?t think Vanuatu is interested to do a PR move. They REALLY need the money. There?s a volcano erupting in one of their islands and they need money for that and they haven?t really gotten up yet after tropical cyclone Pam hit them in 2015. So I really think they need all the funds they can muster up. Now, with regards to making it a nice place for crypto currency startups, Vanuatu is labeled as a financial center, or at least it?s trying to anyway. If you have gone there as I have, you would know that people there won?t move a muscle unless they?re told what to do. So unless somebody tells them to open the place for crypto currency startups?they probably won?t lift a finger. The good thing about Vanuatu is that they want any money, and I mean ANY money. :grin:
stoplight
2017-10-11 08:40
@brianI would be glad to accompany you.. :wink: ..
stoplight
2017-10-11 08:41
In addition, Vanuatu issues banking licenses! :smile:
stoplight
2017-10-11 08:42
Sadly yes and they?ve signed up with the OECD AEOI as well?so they?re off the ?black? list..
stoplight
2017-10-11 08:42
Of course if you?re a citizen of Vanuatu?that changes right? :smile: ..you?ll be subject to territorial taxation?ergo..tax free.
stoplight
2017-10-11 08:45
Number 34 as per https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php with visa-free access to entire Schengen and Russia too! :smile:
stoplight
2017-10-11 09:21
Yup?.if I had some BTC to spare?I would take this as a backup travel document?
stolzlos
2017-10-11 09:23
That is a great link. Thanks for sharing.
stoplight
2017-10-11 10:14
I have been studying the movements of these passport rankings for years and sad to say?I really don?t have a concrete answer as to why Germany has the best passport in the world.
stoplight
2017-10-11 10:16
The best ?professional? answer I can say is that passports are ranked according to politics and economy?thus those who are lucky enough to be born in ?first world nations? have higher ranking passports?
roman
2017-10-11 17:45
What if I was born in a third world but acquired a citizenship in Canada due to naturalization? :stuck_out_tongue: Imo even a better position, as now I have 2 passports.
maxsuur
2017-10-12 07:13
And some of those naturalized individuals won't even know if you asked them.
stoplight
2017-10-13 09:39
@roman and that is exactly what migrants from third world countries do in Canada.. :slightly_smiling_face: or if they can?t do that?they do ?birth tourism? where they give birth in the U.S. or Canada and get a citizenship for their child which in turn ?fast tracks? their own naturalization? :slightly_smiling_face:
stoplight
2017-10-13 09:43
Sometimes its no longer limited to third world countries?as rich Chinese actually have a complex birth tourism system?it?s a big shadow industry in the U.S. where Chinese actually buy buildings to house these birth tourists complete with on-site pediatricians and nurses?big $$$ ?
stoplight
2017-10-13 09:43
It?s now being done in Canada as well..
stoplight
2017-10-13 09:45
well?for the U.S?it?s a matter of making $$$ ?.imagine all the taxes they can make from those wanting to be Americans.. :smile:
roman
2017-10-13 11:34
Cool story related to birthing in Canada (see History section):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Tulip_Festival
usman
2017-10-15 16:22
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alex.bosyj
2017-10-17 15:23
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stoplight
2017-10-19 02:09
@brian thanks for the share? :slightly_smiling_face: ?looks like a PR material written for a company..hehe..they didn?t even include the Malta program which is much better than the Cyprus program?
stoplight
2017-10-19 02:10
No mention of St. Lucia too.. :slightly_smiling_face: ?the article lacks some other infos as well?oh well?hehe..
ggiampieri
2017-10-19 03:06
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stoplight
2017-10-19 10:25
@brian ..oh hmm?have shared a lot of info for folks here on the slack forum..haha..my memory escapes me? :joy: ?.anyway recent developments that have happened just in the last few weeks in the citizenship by investment scene are basically the following:
- St. Kitts & Nevis has a new ?Hurricane Fund? that basically undermines its competition specially for family applications at US$150,000 donation option..
- Dominica drops its government fees (i.e. application fee, passport fee, etc.) and increases the age limit of single dependents to be included in a family application to 30 years old?
- The Antigua & Barbuda Prime Minister recently said that they have intended to drop the prices of their donation option to US$100,000 to compete with other Caribbean countries?
- A Vanuatu citizenship agent, not the government of Vanuatu apparently, now accepts Bitcoin as payment for their citizenship program?
stoplight
2017-10-20 16:45
@stoplight uploaded a file: https://freedomsurfer.slack.com/files/U2HCRC7S9/F7MGKP01G/reduction_to_ndf_-_antigua.pdf
stoplight
2017-10-20 16:45
It?s official?
stoplight
2017-10-20 16:48
Antigua has dropped the citizenship bomb..making it the ?best? program for an individual or family of four?not only does it have a stronger passport compared to the other Caribbean programs, Antigua & Barbuda also doesn?t have personal income tax for its citizens? :slightly_smiling_face:
stoplight
2017-10-20 17:03
For those wanting to get a fast track second citizenship?now is the best time to do so?I doubt if these prices will last more than 6 months?
stoplight
2017-10-22 11:00
@brian yes the price war does indeed begin?until when?is the better question..haha.. :slightly_smiling_face:
stoplight
2017-10-22 11:10
@brian individual? for which country? Yes?single children can be all the way to 30 years old in some of the programs.
stoplight
2017-10-22 11:13
yup! but don?t forget the fees?
stoplight
2017-10-22 11:14
st. kitts and antigua would be about 25-27 years old I think..
stoplight
2017-10-22 11:14
*other fees?
stoplight
2017-10-22 11:15
should be less than $160k including all government fees and professional agent fees for Antigua?that?s for an individual or a family ?..while st. kitts would be around $190k with all other fees
jor.acker
2017-10-22 16:13
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2017-10-22 18:34
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stoplight
2017-10-24 08:48
@brian in both countries, the same rates will apply for an individual AND a family of four?
stoplight
2017-10-24 08:50
the ?cheapest? option for individuals would still be St. Lucia and Dominica which are both about $135-$140k for an individual application?all fees included?
stoplight
2017-10-24 08:51
Yup..same price for 1 or 4 in Antigua & St. Kitts donation option?
stoplight
2017-10-24 08:52
Each country would have a different age cut off?you?ll have to get into those details once you?ve decided which one is best for you and your wallet.. :smile:
bountybairn
2017-10-26 20:20
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me1
2017-10-30 07:31
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jeanpaul
2017-10-31 06:24
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fish
2017-11-04 11:57
This is why this group is awesome. I have never heard this kind of chatter before.
stoplight
2017-11-04 12:36
welcome @fish :slightly_smiling_face:
stoplight
2017-11-04 12:37
In the flag theory?having an alternative citizenship is crucial to attaining better freedom of movement?for both business and pleasure..
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2017-11-04 12:45
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ggiampieri
2017-11-05 09:45
Does Georgia allow dual nationality? It is not clear if they do, actually they don't according to the law(http://migration.commission.ge/index.php?article_id=165&clang=1) but maybe they don't check! Beside Panama,which grants it only if you live there, and Bolivia/Paraguay which are territorial taxation, is there any other possible easy option without real estate purchase or government donation?
stoplight
2017-11-06 09:39
technically speaking?countries that don?t allow dual citizenship will put you in hot water when they find out?but the chances of that happening will depend on how ?stupid??excuse for the term?.the person will be?.the U.S. doesn?t allow dual citizenship but they ?tolerate? it?Singapore is probably one of the strictest of implementing that you shouldn?t have any other citizenship yet there are many Singaporeans who have another citizenship?
stoplight
2017-11-06 09:40
This goes for China as well?which surprisingly is the number one target for second citizenship programs?the Chinese know very well that there citizens are getting second citizenships?but can they really control it? Very difficult to do so?
stoplight
2017-11-06 09:43
So the simple rule of thumb is?.when entering your country with no dual citizenship laws?use that country?s passport to enter and leave?don?t be ?stupid? enough to use your other passport?or else that will get you into trouble?this is how Canadian-Americans and American-Canadians?get into trouble because they think its ok to use either when entering the respective country?that?s a big no-no?you can actually get detained and questioned if you don?t do it properly?.enter the US as an American?leave the US as an American?.enter Canada as a Canadian?etc..
stoplight
2017-11-06 09:48
@ggiampieri ?well..the ?easiest? option is actually migrating to the country itself, living and working there?i.e. Canada, Australia, New Zealand??Paraguay residency is easily acquirable?you can leave right after getting it and stay wherever else you want?then after about 5 years?you can apply for citizenship?but that?s the hard part?because now you have to prove to the Paraguayan courts why they should give you a citizenship?in effect..if you have no ties to Paraguay?like a home, land or a business..then chances are?you don?t get the citizenship?of course?you can always bribe your way into one?which may or may not guarantee the legality of things?
stoplight
2017-11-06 09:50
From our friends here on the forum who have heavily invested in Georgia?it?s still a good time to do so?but again?you may have to actually reside on the ground as well?.they now have access to the Schengen area so a Georgian citizenship is actually a good investment at this point?
pragmatic
2017-11-06 11:28
@stoplight Any EU passports you can buy without having to live there first :slightly_smiling_face: ?
johncitizen
2017-11-06 13:17
You can always start a shelter company there with a placeholder website, etc. That?s a great start to it. I feel like buying a house somewhere only partially helps.
johncitizen
2017-11-06 13:18
If the courts see you as creating jobs/value for that country you will probably always be granted citizenship.
johncitizen
2017-11-06 13:18
Look for clubs that offer life membership.
johncitizen
2017-11-06 13:19
Join a few social/sports clubs. Get in their newsletters.
johncitizen
2017-11-06 13:19
Do some volunteer work occasionally. Provide letters and excepts of these things to the court
johncitizen
2017-11-06 13:20
I?ve done all this in two countries now :)
ggiampieri
2017-11-06 13:22
@stoplight Thank you so much for your detailed answer, I really appreciate it. Actually I have EU citizenship by birth and I am looking forward to acquire a new one as backup for banking/asset protection purpose in a territorial tax country. A citizenship which I can pass on to next generation and possibly my wife. Options are the caribbean by donation, central
/south america by real estate or residency permit. Georgia, but nor sure about dual and if it's too close tu EU. Vanuatu would be good, but no other Asian nation is doable,not even Cambodia. So Panama/Costa rica..hard. Caribbean expensive. Colombia buy house. Chile is living there. Paraguay as you said must prove to court. Choice is not easy with so many options!
ivan
2017-11-06 13:24
Chile is not a territorial tax country
ivan
2017-11-06 13:24
that's for 3 years only for new residents.
ggiampieri
2017-11-06 13:24
Oh btw, if I have to bribe... I'd rather 'donate' to caribbean country
ggiampieri
2017-11-06 13:24
True
ivan
2017-11-06 13:25
it's the closest thing to a first world country Latin America has, tho
ivan
2017-11-06 13:25
the biggest issue with it is that the capital (Santiago), has huge smog problems.
ggiampieri
2017-11-06 13:29
Malaysia is a really good place, sad they dont give passports. HK is becoming police state.. so many cops around compared to few years ago. They stop cars and ppl like europe and give tickets like peanuts. Asia is good is you have a strong passport and you are foreigner!
ivan
2017-11-06 13:30
good info, thanks giac
johncitizen
2017-11-06 13:36
Agree on Chile
johncitizen
2017-11-06 13:36
Asia is for renting
johncitizen
2017-11-06 13:37
You can rent a visa, rent an apartment, rent a woman
johncitizen
2017-11-06 13:37
But the moment you buy in to anything there you get screwed :p
ggiampieri
2017-11-06 13:38
Hahaha true. Oh..now you need at least one month to open an account in HK, actually 1 and 1/2. Keep it in mind
ggiampieri
2017-11-06 13:39
Tomorrow I have appointment with hang seng, will let you know. I am still waiting for approval from uob singapore and one month is gone already.
stoplight
2017-11-06 14:23
@pragmatic both Cyprus and Malta allow citizenship through investment without actually living there?costs are about $1.5M for Malta and about $2M for Cyprus??shorter wait for Cyprus?can get it in about half a year..whereas you?ll have to wait for about 15 months for Malta?but in both instances?no actual residency is required on the ground?maybe save for a few visits of course every now and then?but not permanently live there?
stoplight
2017-11-06 14:26
If you have the money?Malta is good?its the ?rolls-royce? of the Citizenship programs?very strong passport including visa-free access to US & Canada?plus being an EU country?well?you get EU benefits as well?as far as I heard those who do get it..don?t even bother living in Malta after they get their citizenship?they rather go to other EU countries to work & do business?and spend leisure time in Malta?
stoplight
2017-11-06 14:30
@ggiampieri Vanuatu is good, fast and less headache than the Caribbean?those in the news saying that they?re offering it for $280,000 is overpricing?.the actual cost is way below that?our firm is actually offering it for just $200,000 for an entire family of four?and we?ve decided to accept bitcoin already.
stoplight
2017-11-06 14:32
If you and your wife are seriously thinking about second citizenship, Vanuatu, Antigua, Dominica and St. Lucia are good options?
ggiampieri
2017-11-06 15:06
@stoplight great answer. Thanks!!
bombine
2017-11-11 22:44
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fish
2017-11-12 09:37
@stoplight "enter the US as an American?leave the US as an American?.enter Canada as a Canadian". Wouldn't US suspect when you enter from Canada with no CA stamp, and Canada ask where you came from, if you have no US stamp?
simon
2017-11-12 09:54
@fish The US and Canada share entry / exit data for their citizens for all points of entry. They will know regardless of whether you have a stamp or not.
fish
2017-11-12 09:59
In this case, how do you conceal the fact you have 2 citizenship/passports?
simon
2017-11-12 10:02
You don't. Both countries allow dual nationality.
fish
2017-11-12 11:13
It was a bad example on my end I guess
simon
2017-11-12 11:18
Hiding a citizenship would only make sense if you are the citizen of a country which does not allow dual nationality. In such a case, you should never travel directly between the two countries. Instead, you should travel via countries where you won't get entry/exit stamps. For example, Hong Kong.
simon
2017-11-12 11:20
Singapore to Hong Kong, then HK to Canada. Canada to HK and finally HK back to Singapore. Using this strategy, Singapore (in this example) will think you stayed in HK for the whole trip even though you visited your other country of citizenship (Canada).
simon
2017-11-12 13:10
@brian there are international databases for stolen / lost passports (via Interpol) but I don't think any for regular entry / exit data. It wouldn't be accurate anyway, I just did a search for my passport on the Homeland Protection site (US) and half of my entries are missing.
simon
2017-11-12 13:19
I noticed that arriving via a private plane messes up with the data. I also noticed that Amtrak border crossings are not recorded or just show "unavailable"...
simon
2017-11-12 13:20
@simon uploaded a file: https://freedomsurfer.slack.com/files/U1CGE4FDX/F7Z080JVA/screenshot_20171112-131737.jpg
simon
2017-11-12 13:34
It's a bit scary because anyone with your passport number, name and DOB can pull up your entire travel history to the US. If you travel a lot, that's a lot of people.
fish
2017-11-12 13:52
Flying indirectly makes much more sense.
yura-by
2017-11-12 13:53
do any other countries provide similar access to theirs records?
stoplight
2017-11-14 09:30
@yura-by I would guess Canada or the UK would have something similar but i?m unsure if there is a public access similar to the U.S.
yura-by
2017-11-14 09:35
@stoplight I guess almost every country keeps such records for government only access, this is not a big surprise. However public access to such database is very surprising
onlinesale2003
2017-11-15 07:08
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2017-11-20 11:57
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2017-11-23 10:38
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2017-11-27 08:14
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2017-11-30 02:25
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2017-12-02 23:58
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pablesque
2017-12-03 14:35
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ahl
2017-12-05 19:47
Hey any one have experience with "nomadcapitalist"?
mikeseo
2017-12-06 00:41
the reviews I've read say high prices and bad service
stoplight
2017-12-06 02:21
@ahl Just don?t. You?ll regret and waste your money. :slightly_smiling_face:
stoplight
2017-12-06 02:24
If you?re interested in citizenship and residency, there are several people here including @simon who can help you with that. :slightly_smiling_face: ..if you have particular questions?many can give you better answers.
pristinegems4c
2017-12-11 17:05
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haralabob2
2017-12-11 19:17
Its weird, mine shows "no traveler found" i have put in my Canadian passport info and have made 15-20 trips to the US
diamantino.ferreira
2017-12-13 19:00
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2018-05-16 03:57
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matt
2018-05-16 05:40
Does anyone have any updated information bout Chile residency to citizenship process. After 5 years of residency, how strict is Chile regarding physical presence in Chile? I would like to spend half the year in chile, and half in the northern hemisphere. If I buy a property, would that be sufficient to apply for citizenship after 5 years? Also, how much Spanish do you need to know? It would be nice to compare the language requirements for naturalization across Chile/Brazil/Panama/Argentina/Paraguay
johncitizen
2018-05-16 07:50
@matt message me
maxsuur
2018-05-16 12:49
@matt due to high levels of corruption in Paraguay I presume you'll be able to get a passport there even if the only language you speak is "klingon"
maxsuur
2018-05-16 12:50
@matt FYI Brazil is a Portuguese-speaking country, although both languages share an 85% of percent of similarity, just like Dutch and German, or even more so.
asarun72
2018-05-18 00:24
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vs301991
2018-05-20 07:29
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michael
2018-05-22 00:08
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michael
2018-05-22 09:23
Followed Andrew's blog from it's early days. He seems to be doing well and, I agree with @mikeseo his prices are high. He started the membership club, and was giving out free consultations for it.. at the time he was living in KL.. had a decent Skype call with him.. but nothing ground breaking. Decent chap, wish him all the best.
nikolay404
2018-05-25 18:33
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nikolay404
2018-05-25 20:33
does anyone have experience with going through Paraguay residence to citizenship process? How strict is the physical presence requirement?
musso.bros
2018-05-25 21:29
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mikeseo
2018-05-26 00:26
@nikolay404 I asked the Paraguay lawyer I used to get residence about how to get citizenship a few years ago, he said to make an investment in Paraguay maybe $30k in bonds or buy some real estate, pay around $15k in bribes, learn a bit of Spanish, and the physical presence wasn't so strict. I get the impression it's more about paying bribes and having patience to get through the process.
freedomsurfer.com
2018-05-27 17:06
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nikolay404
2018-05-30 10:54
@mikeseo sounds reasonable for a corrupt South American country. It would be naive to think that you can just get a PR and leave for 3 years, then come back to pick up a passport. How reliable do you think your lawyer was? Did you mention that he had ?connections? or something along those lines?
nchuprin
2018-05-30 11:28
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maxsuur
2018-05-30 12:01
In Lat Am everything is possible. Especially if you have money.
mikeseo
2018-05-30 14:32
Not reliable, he dissapeared... Jeronimo Finestra
sanderkocken
2018-06-04 10:33
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2018-06-04 14:02
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2018-06-07 09:40
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2018-06-12 11:51
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2018-06-12 16:39
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2018-06-13 04:36
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2018-06-15 06:03
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stoplight
2018-06-22 20:58
@nikolay404 I can make recommendations in Paraguay..some here on the forum have had success with my local contact. Send me a private message.
vintilamarius89
2018-06-27 12:04
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henrik_fjerdingen
2018-06-28 17:01
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info
2018-06-28 18:35
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hello
2018-07-03 19:32
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2018-07-03 21:59
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2018-07-07 11:23
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2018-07-07 12:46
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2018-07-11 03:33
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vinodgn0088
2018-07-15 12:54
@mikeseo, most likely the exchange rate applied by Life insurance company to convert Crypto to Fiat (EUR) will be worst.
julienduteurtre
2018-07-15 19:27
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stoplight
2018-07-16 01:27
most certainly.. @vinodgn0088 ?.the EUR270,000 is very attractive though?certainly a good option?what the article doesn?t mention is the possible background checks?I?m not familiar with Bulgaria?s due diligence but for sure it will also be tedious as the other countries?not to mention this is a tricky route to say the least?with financing options and all?nonetheless?its an interesting proposition?..and then of course there?s the Vanuatu program where you can get your citizenship and passport via crypto as well quite possibly in less than 2 months?without passing through complicated loopholes?
roman
2018-07-16 13:05
What?s the investment amount?
roman
2018-07-16 13:07
Another website says ?100k
mikeseo
2018-07-16 14:16
starting at EUR 100,000 for a single applicant, EUR 115,000 for a couple, EUR 145,000 for a family of up to four, and EUR 155,000 for a family of five or more.
On top of the contributions, the following fees will apply:
? Service Fee (payable to the government) of EUR 35,000 per application
? Government fees of EUR 5,000 for the main applicant, EUR 2,500 for a spouse, 1,000 for a dependent child (up to age 29), and EUR 5,000 for a dependent parent (from age 55).
? Due diligence fees of EUR 6,000 for the main applicant, EUR 5,000 for the spouse, dependent children over 16, and dependent parents
? Biometric passport fees of EUR 300 per passport
stoplight
2018-07-16 15:30
It?s finally out?the better question now is how will this effect their application to the EU?.which is frankly, the best selling point that Moldova has compared to its bracket competition?.if they get to become a member of the EU in the next 3 years?this is definitely a good investment?if they don?t?then it?s really no different than the Caribbean programs?
stoplight
2018-07-16 15:45
Moldova made the right move in moving their program ahead of Montenegro?still the big question is?how will this affect their EU applications?
mikeseo
2018-07-17 05:46
so there's a number of eastern european countries coming out with programs? Bulgaria, Moldova, Montenegro, Armenia?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxjjldQ3hFo
michael
2018-07-17 14:41
Interesting to know. Thanks @mikeseo
stoplight
2018-07-18 08:48
Bulgaria has had some ?program??but nothing as streamlined and as fast as say Malta or Cyprus. If Armenia plays it correctly, they can definitely control the lower end of the market left open when Comoros closed down its program. The difficulty lies though in the government corruption. It may be positive for whoever is sitting right now but what if the powers change in the next few years. You may have a recurrence of what happened in Vanuatu in the past.
kuka
2018-07-19 19:57
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2018-07-20 17:13
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2018-07-24 09:26
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stoplight
2018-07-26 23:33
and the European citizenship ?wars? begin? :slightly_smiling_face:
https://www.artoncapital.com/industry-news/montenegro-news/montenegro-announces-its-citizenship-by-investment-program/
stoplight
2018-07-26 23:34
this comes just a few weeks after the Moldova announcement?I wonder who?s next in Europe to announce?
stoplight
2018-07-26 23:36
And more good news by the way?scratch Vanuatu as the only country accepting crypto?
https://wp.caribbeannewsnow.com/2018/07/24/antigua-barbuda-economic-citizenship-programme-now-accepts-cryptocurrencies/
stoplight
2018-07-26 23:41
The Antiguan passport is the best Caribbean passport! For those who have extra coins stored somewhere, better start gathering them! :slightly_smiling_face: For sure, they won?t be the last Caribbean country to do this, they?ve started the trend and eventually, the others will follow.
stoplight
2018-07-26 23:42
These are indeed exciting times! :grin: ?stay tuned and start saving for your second passport!
millnmd
2018-07-26 23:51
@stoplight Wow Montenegro's program is really competitive.
stoplight
2018-07-27 00:12
@millnmd yes it is! But IMHO it?s no better than the Caribbean programs if not effectively lower. They?re not a member of the EU though they have Schengen access but not UK. Then again they do have visa-free access to Russia so this could really be a perfect second citizenship for the Russians and others from that part of the world. It may attract some Chinese as well wanting to enter that region.
arthur.capard
2018-08-01 12:40
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2018-08-06 07:26
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2018-08-07 19:34
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julienduteurtre
2018-08-08 22:20
@simon In the citizenship part of the course you mentioned that it is possible to get Georgian citizenship in one year, I didn't found any info about this, could you please give us some insights about this ?
johncitizen
2018-08-09 23:39
Also interested.
wimva
2018-08-14 20:59
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burrup.lambert
2018-08-16 09:30
Anybody here actually received citizenship after 5 years and a Panama Friendly Nations Visa? Been over 5 years now since its been out but I cant find any references of peoples actual experience and receiving it.
vinodgn0088
2018-08-16 09:44
@burrup.lambert, Try to find if there is any national population statics on any Panamanian govt. website. If you find one, most likely you will find a data regarding number of naturalized citizens as well.
itaiohayon
2018-08-16 20:14
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mikeseo
2018-08-16 20:35
https://www.migracion.gob.pa/inicio/estadisticas statistics on residence permits
mikeseo
2018-08-16 20:36
on the bottom right https://www.migracion.gob.pa/ NATURALIZACI�N is lists I think of people who got naturalized
mikeseo
2018-08-16 20:37
looks like a lot of Venezuelans got residence and some Colombians got citizenship
burrup.lambert
2018-08-17 17:03
Mmmmm, not as many naturalizations for Western countries as I would have thought.
johncitizen
2018-08-18 05:48
There is a Spanish language requirement. Venezuelans and Colombians already meet that requirement, is gringos have a harder time ticking that box.
michael
2018-08-18 07:42
Makes sense lol
burrup.lambert
2018-08-18 08:08
Acknowledged, hence why I'm trying to find some information about it =P. Always wanted to learn Spanish... Not a single Aussie on there :/.
johncitizen
2018-08-18 08:35
One lesson a week, one group meet a week and duo-lingo daily. You?ll pass the test no problems.
maxsuur
2018-08-18 12:57
"Assimil: Spanish with Ease" Best Language Learning Program out of there
szekessy
2018-08-28 18:20
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2018-09-08 10:13
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2018-09-10 07:03
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max
2018-09-13 15:02
A month of Spanish on duolingo and I am able to follow Narcos on Netflix :slightly_smiling_face:
dsolutions
2018-09-16 15:42
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mikeseo
2019-04-13 00:34
Which countries will actually give you citizenship after having a paper residency for 3-5yrs?
By paper residency I mean countries where you only visit for a few days/weeks every year, and you don't need to or don't stay long enough to pay tax.
mikeseo
2019-04-13 00:36
Panama seems like you won't actually get a passport even if you fit the requirements.
Paraguay seems more grey area, sounds like you would need to pay bribes and depends on who you know.
mikeseo
2019-04-13 00:38
Philippines seems like they won't give you a passport if you're white?
mikeseo
2019-04-13 00:38
Singapore seems like they won't give you a passport unless you're really rich and famous and contribute a lot.
asarun72
2019-04-13 00:43
@mikeseo how about Argentina , Uruguay?
asarun72
2019-04-13 00:44
Macedonia is on nomad list
mikeseo
2019-04-13 01:10
have you heard that they actually give guys a passport after the 3-5yrs?
mikeseo
2019-04-13 01:10
even if it's in their rules they can still drag their feet and do nothing.
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2019-04-13 01:31
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simon
2019-04-13 04:47
Argentina has a presence requirement for citizenship, 183 days in-country per year. Panama and Paraguay also require it for citizenship (even if not officially). I would assume the same is true for Uruguay.
Some countries have even more stringent presence requirements with up to 270 days per year in-country (the UK and New Zealand for example).
simon
2019-04-13 04:48
If you want a citizenship without any time investment, an economic citizenship will be your best bet.
michael
2019-04-13 10:14
@mikeseo you'll have to put some money down if you want one where you don't need to stay long... look at antigua, or one of the smaller islands... where you have to put money down... or there is the Portugal golden visa...
ivan
2019-04-13 11:52
If you stage things correctly in Paraguay you might be able to get away with it. I've heard of people who enters into the country and then leave without registering the exit. Not legal of course. I did that by mistake at one time. I haven't returned to Paraguay in 7 years but last time I was there I left it without declaring my exit to Brazil by mistake. The borders there are a mess.
ivan
2019-04-13 11:53
Many criminals in Argentina disappear into Paraguay when they're being searched by the police.
ivan
2019-04-13 12:02
But what I mentioned pretty much adjusts to your definition of "grey area, bribes, illegal and depends on who you know".
mikeseo
2019-04-13 14:51
So sounds like the paper residency to citizenship thing is a myth.
I'm thinking about giving up my Panama and Paraguay residencies cuz it's a real pain to fly there every 2 years from Asia. I got both residencies in 2016, made a short trip in 2018 to meet the minimum requirements, and am not looking forward to another trip in 2020...I don't need the residencies for any tax purposes, I'm not going to live there, and if there's no realistic option to get passports in the future...what's the point in doing the tough flights every couple years to keep them?
michael
2019-04-13 15:22
@mikeseo haha, that's a long flight from asia... that's actually why i dropped having my UAE company and UAE investor visa... didn't think the trip over there every 180 days was worth it... I am based in Asia as well.
michael
2019-04-13 15:22
Yeah, not so straightforward. It's more, of citizenship by investment.
michael
2019-04-13 15:25
I was tempted my South American options as well... but I don't have any business interests there... and it is a long flight from Asia.
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ouafouaf
2019-08-06 14:47
I Agree on that, unless you love traveling so much that you d do it even for paperwork, its enoying to have to fly to some places just for that, even worse if you had to say 6 months just not to loose your residency.
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replay
2019-08-23 15:01
did somebody here manage to acquire the paraguayan citizenship? i've had the residency for about two years now, and i've spent about one and half of those two years in the country. once i reach three years i'd like to give it a try, but it doesn't seem straight forward at all, so i'd be curious about other people's experiences
julienduteurtre
2019-08-23 20:49
I'll be interested to hear about it also :slightly_smiling_face:
burrup.lambert
2019-08-24 01:02
Ditto. curious to hear how you go. I think there was a guy on here who went to go for residency but in the end didn't pursue it because it seemed a bit illegitimate , payments being made to officials etc. Might have a better chance if you are well connected. What is your 'home' country? Lots of places don't publicly admit it but they discriminate against Middle Eastern and African ethnicities.
mescos
2019-08-24 19:19
Same here. Keen to hear from others who successfully acquired Paraguayan citizenship, their experience, the costs, timeframe, etc. So far, I?ve only heard stories of those using illegitimate routes as well. Would be great to hear from someone who successfully obtained it via legitimate channels?
giovannilaperna
2019-08-25 15:05
I've Paraguayan residency, not just on papers, I live there a few months per year, since 3 years. I can tell you for sure (personal initial experience and stories from friends living here since decades) that the only thing it's actually considered when you apply for the citizenship is if you paid tax in the country. E.g. if your incomes are all foreign source and you pay nothing you will never get the citizenship, at least following the legal route. If you have a local business on which you pay tax you have very good chance to get the passport, no matter how much time you spend in the country. I have a local bitcoin mining business on which I pay 10% tax. The most boring part is that you have to report and pay monthly. The process takes years (pretty much a standard for any document in any latam country).
giovannilaperna
2019-08-25 15:13
You can easily get the residency following the legal route. You can choose to pay a tip to get a document ready the same day instead of waiting a few days or to cut some steps: e.g.: since a few months, for the first residency document, a visit of a policeman at your house is required. You can cut that step with 10 dollars, if you want. Or you just wait for his visit usually within a week.
replay
2019-08-25 15:18
Thx @giovannilaperna, that info is really useful. I've heard that an alternative to having a local business and paying income tax would be to invest in properties, using foreign capital.
F.e. buy land, build houses on it, then sell it.
Because that's another way to show that the country benefits from you being there. So far I've been considering that route
replay
2019-08-25 15:19
i'm also reporting IVA (the personal income tax) once a month, but my movement is usually 0 each month
replay
2019-08-25 15:28
are you planning to apply for citizenship in the future @giovannilaperna?
giovannilaperna
2019-08-25 15:45
Yes I do. But I'm in a sort of special situation. I came here for papers and I discovered an hidden gem. As I said, I'm already spending some time every year in the country and I'm planning to spend more time in the next years.
replay
2019-08-25 15:52
Great. Was that hidden gem the fact that the electricity prices are very low here, which makes mining more profitable?
Do you already have an immigration lawyer that can help you with the process to apply for citizenship?
giovannilaperna
2019-08-25 15:52
I had no time to investigate the lands opportunity yet (I'm already exposed with teak in Ecuador). About houses, it seams a very good opportunity, however, the local economy is very much related to Brazil and Argentina... so I don't know what is going to happen there in the short term. .
replay
2019-08-25 15:53
So far i've been working with somebody who is not really a proper lawyer, she's more like a fixer, but apparently she's helped other people to get citizenship before. I'm not really sure if I trust her enough for that process, so if you know a proper immigration lawyer i'd be glad about getting his contact :slightly_smiling_face:
giovannilaperna
2019-08-25 15:55
I really like the people here, that is the gem to me. Of course electricity price is a plus :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:
giovannilaperna
2019-08-25 15:57
I still have to find a good one as well. My first contact was Jeronimo, for the residency. For the passport I don't know... but I don't exclude the option to go alone.
replay
2019-08-25 16:00
It seems to be hard to find good immigration lawyers who're willing to do that. Apparently this guy Robert Schultze, who helps many people to get the residency, used to also help his clients with the naturalization process. But then he stopped offering that because it's too much effort and too time consuming. My fixer says the same, she's reluctant to take on clients for naturalization, because it takes years and sometimes it never succeeds at all.
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ouafouaf
2019-08-30 22:18
I think that PY admin is still relying very much on Bribes, any process will - on purpose - be pile until you decide to give s/o a good bribe...then suddenly your case is completed the following week.
This is how it work at every level ...so its just not....bad to them....its how it works !. have a friend, he is native Paraguyan but lives in Brasil, once he goes back to renew is PY Car licence he keep using. All of the sudden, he is arrested at the Licence office and treaten to be jailled....someone used is PY ID and involved him into a huge fraud. Hopefully he can call his wife, have her send a bunch of money, pay a lawyer so they can resolve the case showing he could not have been him since he was in Brasil at the time...he had the threat of his life and came our of the country as soon as he could...without any money for sure... and he grew up there...he just said, corruption is everywhere and such a pain there...
replay
2019-08-30 22:21
i can confirm that from my own experience. with a few extra $ everything goes way smoother.
replay
2019-08-30 22:22
once i took a left turn at an intersection where i wasn't supposed to turn left, and the police was standing right there watching... $30 later the problem was solved :joy: when i tell paraguayans that story they're all like "what, $30, that's way too much"
replay
2019-08-30 22:22
i also bribed some guys to make the process of getting a driving license a bit smoother, and also to get my motorcycle registered... so yeah, pretty much every time i do anything
hello888
2019-08-31 01:45
I lived 9 months in Paraguay, I never saw as many bribes anywhere else, for instance, foreigners in cars are constantly being stopped by police, and they make this "theater act" threatening you to take you the police station -for no reason-, only to get some bribes, only newcomers fall for it because they don't know. It was also the most boring country I've been in the last 7 years, so living there again for a long time would be hell for me unless I was into doing some meditation retreat lol.
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maxsuur
2019-08-31 22:53
This comment is gold
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madtruckers
2019-09-14 09:32
RE: Paraguay, I think it's a quaint little country where people are genuinely nice despite the people being so poor. I got my PR and Cedula through Jeronimo Finestra, which is what most gringos do and at the time, my Spanish was quite basic.
Basically, the intel I had received is in order to obtain citizenship, a bribe of circa USD 10K is required to some shady government administrator that no one is able to be named and to justify your ties to the country, you're required to invest USD 30K+ into the country whether it's agricultural land or otherwise. This information I received from Edwin (who works with Jeronimo Finestra) and you could probably reach him yourselves via Whatsapp on +595 981 49524. He has some cattle contracts up for sale if you're looking for a cash flow investment, which I have not personally taken on board. Also, if you're new to the country, you can send him a message and he can take you around to get to know the city and interior a bit more for USD 150. All the guys operate out of Cafe Martinez, Catedral so if you hang out there enough on the weekdays, just get la due�a to introduce you.
Statistically, after doing significant research online and speaking to people and forums, I could not find anyone including Americans who held PR for 10+ years and received citizenship. Had it happened, there would be massive celebrations everywhere like "Hallejuah, someone got it" but no. In terms of time spent in the country and capital investment required in hope to get naturalisation in Paraguay, it seems like an excessively risky just so you can hope to get it and there has been no historical evidence to prove anyone from a Western developed nation has done so.
There is greater chance in getting Panamanian citizenship than Paraguayan because their data is published on their website under "Naturalizaci�n" here: https://www.migracion.gob.pa/. After evaluating the aprovada data, it appears that the average time spent for most naturalisation applicants in Panama is 10+ years. Some food for thought before committing yourself to anyone country.
After getting the Paraguayan PR, I am happy to have experienced the culture and warmth the culture has to bring from a climatic and people oriented basis. In terms of entertainment, I would think that the only decent places to visit in Asuncion would be Juan Valdez Cafe downturn or in VIlla Morra and aside from that there's nothing really to do. If you have time, you could do the tourist stuff like visit Ciudad Del Este and Foz De Igacu for some cheap eats or shopping.
The Paraguay PR/ Cedula acts as an excellent bolthole in a world of declining food security with major countries/ economies experiencing severe disasters like droughts, floods and storms so having this will definitely come in handy in the next few years as Paraguay remains self-sufficient enough to produce its own food. Secondly, as food prices begin rising, it may trigger social and civil unrest in your other residences so from a physical security standpoint, Paraguay offer protection from this because the people are so passive, peaceful and adopt the mana�a attitude and their vegetables and natural produce is so plentifully, their biggest problem is actually a lack of distribution, storage and refrigeration so even at current, a large majority of the food simply gets wasted and spoiled because of the heat.
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burrup.lambert
2019-09-17 06:31
Great write up @madtruckers!
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julianmb
2019-12-24 14:25
How about the taxes?
digimkt
2019-12-24 20:14
Guys if you are interested in Portugal Golden Visa and / or real estate investments there message me, we have team there, lawyers, brokers, loans at 1% interest...
vinodgn0088
2019-12-25 02:21
@burrup.lambert, Looks like a PR drama to attract more investors. "Jo�o Cunha Vaz, Senior Partner of Edge International Lawyers, informs IMI that one of its clients has obtained citizenship in Portugal after holding the country?s ARI (golden visa) for five years, obtaining an A2 certificate of Portuguese language, and fulfilling the 35-days (over the five year period) physical presence requirement." <<< Nowhere they mentioned that the client stayed only minimum days.
mikeseo
2019-12-25 07:07
or if he paid taxes
mikeseo
2019-12-25 07:07
or if he's pure chinese
burrup.lambert
2019-12-25 16:26
All true :joy:
digimkt
2019-12-26 13:28
Best place for citizenship is Panama, if you need help regarding this our lawyers can provide all procedures. Basically you need a Panama corp with minimum 5k USD in it and 3.9k USD for the government and legal fees
victorfragaceotto
2019-12-26 23:51
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mikeseo
2019-12-27 00:23
@digimkt have you gotten clients Panama citizenship? What was their details, length of residency, days in Panama, etc?
digimkt
2019-12-27 02:48
@mikeseo Those who obtain Panamanian Permanent Residenc are eligible to apply for Panamanian Citizenship after 5 years of Permanent Resident status. The 5-year requirement may become 3 years if you are married to a Panamanian, or if you have children born in Panama. The 5-year requirement can also be reduced in other�*circumstances*. Unlike Permanent Residency, the Citizenship process involves many government offices, and an application can take anywhere from 2 to 5 years to be approved.
So to have your fiscal residency in Panama it's easy and there is no minimum days per year, you have the be there every 2 years for a few days and to benefit from the tax advantages you cannot remain more then 6 months per year in any other country...
vinodgn0088
2019-12-27 06:13
@mikeseo what digimkt saying is just paper theory. You already know it very well :slightly_smiling_face:
simon
2019-12-27 07:06
I remember reading the official stats regarding how many people had been naturalized (the number was quite small). It seems possible but only for those who live there full-time, are fluent in Spanish and have "normal" local connections (family, a local business that isn't just a shell etc).
burrup.lambert
2019-12-27 15:12
So you haven't gotten any clients residency...
diegoreymendez
2019-12-28 15:22
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mescos
2019-12-28 19:28
@digimkt - I have a few questions. You said that ?if you have children born in Panama?, you can get citizenship in less than 5 years.
1. have you/your firm ever handled a citizenship case where someone successfully obtained citizenship after being a PR for 5 years?
2. have you/your firm ever handled a citizenship case where someone obtained citizenship after holding PR for *less* than 5 years?
3. Can you send a link or the specific excerpt in the Panamanian law that says citizenship can be obtained in *less* than 5 years if you have children born there? I?ve seen this floating around the internet, but no one has been able to back it up or point to specific legislation that supports it . Also, many Panamaian law firms say that getting citizenship in less than 5 years (even if you have a child born there) is not possible and there is no case law to support it. If you can prove otherwise, this could be very interesting to the community.
digimkt
2019-12-28 21:47
Panamanian permanent residence does not guarantee a path to obtain Panamanian citizenship. If you intend to eventually become a citizen (e.g. hold dual citizenship) and obtain a Panamanian passport, you must verify that the visa granting your permanent residence gives you also the right to apply for citizenship.
An eligible permanent resident of Panama has three alternatives to become naturalized:
? To have lived for five (5) years as a PERMANENT RESIDENT
? To have lived for three years (3) as a PERMANENT RESIDENT, married to a PANAMANIAN or having PANAMANIAN CHILDREN with a PANAMANIAN PARENT
? To have been born in a Latin American country or Spain, and to have fulfilled the same requirements that Panamanians would have to meet to become naturalized in their country of origin. This is known as Reciprocity, and allows for a shorter permanent residence time frame required of citizens from these countries:
? *1 year*: Colombia, El Salvador
? *2 years*: Argentina, Ecuador, Spain, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Peru
? *3 years*: Uruguay
digimkt
2019-12-28 21:47
The focus is more on permanent residency since this is the most wanted service due to fiscal benefits...
julienduteurtre
2019-12-29 22:05
@digimkt What you are saying about fiscal residency in Panama is wrong, the first thing they check is the number of days you spent in the country, and as a foreigner if you didn't spent 183 you won't get your fiscal residency certificat, period.
I know it because I'm fiscal resident in Panama since few years and they are pretty picky to give you this certificat, even if you spend the 183 days they might refuse, it happen to me once, I had to submit more documents to prove that I have real ties with the country...
So be careful with what you read online :wink:
benjamin
2019-12-30 05:39
Are you talking about tax residency? I was under the impression that the number of days was irrelevant if you're a PR and maintain close ties such as property?
michelle
2019-12-30 08:29
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2019-12-30 10:18
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ndg1ndg
2019-12-30 21:36
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digimkt
2019-12-30 22:24
Anyone who owns a Panama corp and has 5000 USD in a panama bank and is from one of the 43 nations can get a permanent residency visa, easy, without being more than few days every 2 years in Panama... contact a laywer there
lauren
2020-01-01 13:47
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si006
2020-01-02 20:37
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mescos
2020-01-03 21:11
Thanks @digimkt. Can you explain this point more? ?To have lived for three years (3) as a PERMANENT RESIDENT, having PANAMANIAN CHILDREN with a PANAMANIAN PARENT?. To confirm, are you saying that this 3 year path is only possible if one of the parents of the Panamanian child is already a Panama citizen?
Also, what if two non-Panamanian parents with PR living in Panama for 3 years have a child born in Panama (aka: a Panamanian citizen child)?are the parents eligible to apply for citizenship since they now have a Panamanian child?
marcin
2020-01-06 06:39
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openaccessconsultingl
2020-01-07 13:28
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994kaloyan
2020-01-08 18:04
Hey fam. Does anyone have the Panamanian fiscal residency ?
I tried to figure out on my own how it works but I only got confused :smile:
Initially I thought all that's necessary to get it is to register a company, go there, open a bank account with $5000US and you're pretty much done.
Yesterday I spoke to an attorney though, and she told me that in order to get the fiscal residency, permanent residency is necessary first.
In actuality, how does it work ?
replay
2020-01-08 20:46
I'd be curious about that too, but I think this is the wrong chan to ask, better try #residency.
yuli
2020-01-09 05:09
I went through the process and I am a Panamian resident - so feel free to ask me questions + I can connect you the attorneys who helped me out
alan.c.park
2020-01-09 06:23
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karim
2020-01-09 10:05
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pierre.berthalon
2020-01-09 10:09
In order to get fiscal residency you need to comply with the 183 days (i.e living in Panama at least 6 months). Permanent residency in Panama doesn't give you fiscal residency (despite what Deloitte Tax Guide and other sources state).
994kaloyan
2020-01-09 13:07
Thanks.
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2020-01-09 16:18
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2020-03-01 01:18
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burrup.lambert
2020-03-10 13:27
prashantpawar
2020-03-10 14:41
Is there a holy grail citizenship(s) for freedom surfers from tax perspective (irrespective of the difficulty in getting it)?
simon
2020-03-10 14:52
@prashantpawar Pretty much any tax haven citizenship will fit that holy grail definition. Some, such as Antigua, St Kitts and Vanuatu are fairly easy to get (you can buy them) while others (Bahamas, Cayman etc) are very difficult.
You?ll have to be careful about where you live and work, however, as your citizenship is only one part of the tax equation.
prashantpawar
2020-03-10 15:11
I understand, but then why are people here curious about Paraguay or Panama citizenships/residencies?
simon
2020-03-10 15:48
Because they are cheap and reasonably easy to acquire (in the case of Paraguay, the cost is only a few hundred dollars + travel). They are also unusual in the sense that you get permanent residency immediately instead of having to first move as a resident and then apply for permanent residency after a few years.
Citizenship in either of those two countries is very difficult, however, perhaps even impossible for most people.
What I?ve found is that for most people, what works best is to aim for a country with a low (instead of 0) tax rate. That opens up tons of options that often require far fewer lifestyle sacrifices.
mescos
2020-03-11 01:39
@prashantpawar You can get Panamanian citizenship after 5 years of permanent residency. You don?t have to physically be in the country the entire time. You take a multiple choice test in Spanish and have an interview in Spanish. They give study materials beforehand. Then the president has to sign off on it, which typically happens at the end of the presidential term. So there were several expats that got it this past year since it was an election year.
icefreebiz
2020-03-11 12:30
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burrup.lambert
2020-03-11 15:58
I thought Panamanian citizenship, especially via the FNV, was a bit up in the air. Wasn't it only created in 2013 so the first people would be getting their citizenship 2018/2019? I haven't seen to many reports about it. If they got it, how much time they actually spent there.
For FNV you only have to be in the country I think 1 day a year? But to qualify for tax residency you have to be there 6 months. I would LOVE to hear from someone who obtained Panamanian citizenship via FNV and only spent minimum time in the country, 1 day a year.
It's quite attractive if you already have tax residency somewhere else and you can obtain a 'free' Panamanian citizenship in parallel with your other activities after 5 years.
prashantpawar
2020-03-11 18:05
@mescos so compared to Mexican residency and subsequent citizenship where you also have a spanish test and no physical presence requirements (and a much powerful passport), what are the benefits of panamanian citizenship/residency?
mescos
2020-03-11 18:26
@prashantpawar, Panama is a territorial tax country. So your tax rate on money earned outside of Panama is 0%. Whereas most countries tax their residents on world wide income. So it?s good from a residency perspective and the citizenship is more like a bonus that doesn?t come with any tax baggage.
mescos
2020-03-11 18:34
@burrup.lambert - To maintain residency, yes, you technically only need to be in the country for 1 day per year. But to get citizenship, you realistically need to have more substantive ties to the country. They?re obviously going to ask about this in the interview and if your answer is questionable and you have no real ties to the country, you?re application is going to be rejected. Immigration lawyers who handle citizenship cases would be able to provide more insight into this.
mykolas.ramanauskas
2020-03-11 22:49
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2020-03-13 13:53
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2020-03-17 21:12
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2020-03-20 21:35
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2020-03-22 03:16
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2020-03-26 13:05
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buynps.org
2020-03-27 13:47
```Right now, I'm helping Mark obtain a residence permit by forming a simple company and hiring one employee in Eastern Europe. He will pay his new hire $550 per month - a little above average - to do admin work and handle emails.
In exchange for hiring this employee, he will also qualify for a one-year residence permit with no time required on the ground. After one year, he can renew his permit for another two years, at which time he can apply for citizenship.
No time on the ground is required other than applying for and renewing the permit.
No language skills are required.
No donations or other investments need be made.
Mark will hire this employee, keep her on payroll, and get an emerging second citizenship in about 42 months.```
buynps.org
2020-03-27 13:47
I got this email today - what do you guys think about it?
buynps.org
2020-03-27 13:47
BS? or something too good to be true?
omocha_10
2020-03-27 14:36
Which country?
buynps.org
2020-03-27 15:10
they don?t say
buynps.org
2020-03-27 15:10
they want $ lol
buynps.org
2020-03-27 15:10
i want to know if it?s real or ont
buynps.org
2020-03-27 15:10
not
burrup.lambert
2020-03-27 15:35
Nomad capitalist haha
burrup.lambert
2020-03-27 15:36
Latvia is good for business visas isn't it?
jerrycjchang
2020-03-27 15:37
Why would you even consider it if they cant even tell you the name of country?
bruce_edwards
2020-03-28 08:28
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michael
2020-03-29 11:14
as everyone has asked... which country hahaha....
buynps.org
2020-03-29 16:25
no idea..
buynps.org
2020-03-29 16:25
any ideaes?
simon
2020-03-29 17:03
It could be Serbia, it?s possible to qualify there in three years (although you must spend the three years in the country). It could also be Moldova.
I highly doubt that the above strategy is legal, if it works (that?s a big if) it?s probably due to the high level of corruption in those countries.
There are countries in Europe that offer near-instant citizenship but you usually have to invest a significant amount to qualify.
buynps.org
2020-03-29 19:01
@simon which countries do you think those would be?
simon
2020-03-29 20:05
@buynps.org You can find the main programs here (as well as some investor resident visas): https://www.oecd.org/tax/automatic-exchange/crs-implementation-and-assistance/residence-citizenship-by-investment/
In Europe there is also Montenegro, Moldova and Bulgaria. Albania has also announced that they are interested in selling their citizenship.
c.yanar
2020-04-01 02:00
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antonio.fonduca
2020-04-01 14:36
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prashantpawar
2020-04-02 02:48
@buynps.org at least tell who (or which company) sent you that email
buynps.org
2020-04-02 03:28
nomad capitalist
bartek
2020-04-02 22:08
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2020-04-03 13:03
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2020-04-04 11:54
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2020-04-04 20:43
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2020-04-05 16:55
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2020-04-05 17:22
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openaccessconsultingl
2020-04-05 22:46
I am very confident it is not Serbia. At least, this is not the legal way to do it. Illegally I cannot say as I don?t know, but sounds too easy.
mgonlinephone
2020-04-06 18:10
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2020-04-06 18:11
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2020-04-06 19:53
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2020-04-07 02:37
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2020-04-07 18:40
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2020-04-10 07:41
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2020-04-11 15:46
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noahlibbyhaines
2020-04-12 01:15
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noahlibbyhaines
2020-04-12 14:50
Hey all, I'm a US citizen looking to either become an EU citizen or plant a "citizen flag" more advantageous for tax (possibly a low-tax country or a residence taxation country that I won't spend time in). Also looking for a desirable, low-cost country for living part of the year and airbnb'ing out for a good return. Looking forward to discussing with y'all.
noahlibbyhaines
2020-04-12 14:51
Has anybody here gone through DAFT? I'm thinking that's where I'll start.
nitindania11
2020-04-12 16:37
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brent
2020-04-12 22:07
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mikeseo
2020-04-12 23:45
@noahlibbyhaines did you check your ancestry already?
noahlibbyhaines
2020-04-12 23:46
@mikeseo I don't think that works for me as none of my grandparents were born abroad.
mikeseo
2020-04-12 23:46
my great grandfather was from italy and I got a IT passport from it
mikeseo
2020-04-12 23:46
grandma was born in the US
francoiskocik
2020-04-13 02:05
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prashantpawar
2020-04-13 04:19
@mikeseo how long did it take you for the whole process?
mikeseo
2020-04-13 04:24
2-3 yrs, I had to get a lawyer and pay him 2k EUR because there is some rule that you can't claim citizenship if your ancestor was a female born before 1948, but lots of people hire that lawyer to challenge that rule in court and he wins all his cases...
brent
2020-04-13 04:31
@mikeseo -- that's very interesting. I'm trying to get Irish Citizenship (Irish Grandmother). It's complicated at present because my birth was not registered on or before 1986 (when the law for foreign births changed) with the nearest Embassy. My mother can currently get hers, but I can't get mine, but I believe this is being challenged by a group at present...
mikeseo
2020-04-13 04:33
hopefully they win the case :slightly_smiling_face:
buynps.org
2020-04-13 05:03
is there any hope in attempting a dna test if you are obviously a single nationality ie. chinese?
simon
2020-04-13 05:20
@buynps.org If your parents / grand-parents hold / held Chinese citizenship (either PRC or ROC), you likely also qualify. I have friends that hold both PRC and western passports so even though it's not technically allowed, dual nationality is in practice often possible (I think most people just keep quiet about their overseas passports). Not sure about ROC and dual nationality.
buynps.org
2020-04-13 05:20
@simon i initially had a chinese citizenship but when we emmigrated out, i gave that up for a canadian one - i don?t think i can get one again?
simon
2020-04-13 05:26
@buynps.org According to this ( https://irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/country-information/rir/Pages/index.aspx?doc=456288 ), you can. I?m not sure how strict they are regarding dual nationality, however, and if you?d be able to keep your Canadian citizenship. It says that the application has to be filed with the local PSB so requirements may vary depending on where you apply.
buynps.org
2020-04-13 05:35
@simon ah okay thanks! i was referring to more china?s side, i heard if you give it up, they will never give one to you again
simon
2020-04-13 05:39
Yes, the guide covers how to reinstate Chinese citizenship
simon
2020-04-13 05:39
Not sure why the Canadian government has a guide about that but it?s pretty detailed
saba.bosuener
2020-04-13 15:40
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burrup.lambert
2020-04-13 17:58
Have more information on this @brent? My great grandmother was Irish and my mother can get Irish citizenship but like you, I am unable to get mine because of the birth registry. It's interesting though, if my mother gets hers, then I or my sister has a child. My child (or my sisters) should be able to get it. It would skip a generation.
brent
2020-04-13 22:16
Hey @burrup.lambert - I remember seeing an article online about it, so let me try and find it. Yes, it's as if we miss it on bloody technicality lol...
b.maite
2020-04-14 16:44
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2020-04-15 06:18
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prashantpawar
2020-04-16 02:37
@mikeseo I am helping my buddy to get the Italian citizenship but he can't tell me shit about his great-grandpa other than his name was Joe (and his last name) and that he came to the US around the turn of the century. Well obviously his real name wasn't Joe, and Joseph wasn't common in Italy back then. It was probably Giusoppe or something.
How can he establish this out, any tips/solutions?
mikeseo
2020-04-16 04:06
I don't really remember what I did exactly..
I had to get my birth cert, my dads birth and marriage certs, my grandma's birth and marriage and death certs, my great grandpa's birth and marriage certs.
I got my, dads, grandma's documents from different states in the US.
I requested great grandpa's naturalization certificate from the USCIS.
I got great grandpa's birth and marriage certs from a guy in italy ($250)
The first step is figuring out the names, dates, and locations, I think I used http://ancestry.com or http://myheritage.com to figure out grandma's original first name and maiden name, and than her birth cert listed her father's full name. Start backwards and build a family tree, your buddy to his parents to his grandparents to his great grandpa.
I think there's some forums or probably facebook groups for exactly this that talk about how to do the research.
timorshait
2020-04-17 19:06
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2020-04-20 02:40
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noahlibbyhaines
2020-04-21 01:10
@mikeseo I'm looking into my great grandparents. I would guess if anything they trace back to Sweden, France or Ireland if anything. It sounds like Ireland could work, but I don't think I've seen much about citizenship by descent for the other two.
noahlibbyhaines
2020-04-21 01:11
Has anybody here gone through naturalization in France? I'm considering giving it a shot, but I would like to know what I'm getting into. I imagine they might be tough when it comes to making sure a candidate is thoroughly integrated.
noahlibbyhaines
2020-04-21 01:20
The other path I'm thinking of is via opening a business in Belgium.
mikeseo
2020-04-21 01:23
france is high taxes right? what about portugal nhr and trying to get 5-6yrs there without paying much taxes
simon
2020-04-21 01:26
I?ve talked to an immigration lawyer in France and was told that you should spend 2 years in the country before applying, in order to be able to prove that you are well integrated. It takes 1-2 years for an application to be processed so you?d be looking at 3-4 years of French tax residency (making it a potentially very expensive citizenship to acquire).
noahlibbyhaines
2020-04-21 03:07
@simon I thought 5 years of residency was required to be naturalized in France. I'll have to read up more on France's taxation. I'd be very open to Portugal/Netherlands (DAFT) if I could fulfill my time in country by roaming around the Schengen Zone....how do they know if you're in the country if you can pass freely between Schengen countries? Do they make multiple residency checks?
simon
2020-04-21 03:41
There?s multiple ways you can reduce the length of stay required for qualification. If you are from a French-speaking country (Canada, for example) you can apply immediately. If you graduated from a French university, it?s two years etc.
burrup.lambert
2020-04-21 13:50
prashantpawar
2020-04-22 02:08
Lol what are the benefits of Russian citizenship?
mikeseo
2020-04-22 02:17
protection from US gov?
noahlibbyhaines
2020-04-22 04:15
Anybody have any thoughts on how strictly enforced the residency (days in country) requirements are for Portuguese/French/Netherlands citizenship? I'm considering pursuing one of the 3 and can't decide. If I'm stuck in the country it might be worth it to pay the higher taxes that come with France. If I'd be relatively free to roam the Schengen Zone I would have to strongly consider Portugal with the NHR benefits. At that point I think the only downside to Portugal would be learning Portuguese instead of French.
noahlibbyhaines
2020-04-22 04:17
I'd consider DAFT also if relatively free to roam, but my work is pretty well set and from what I understand with DAFT I'd have to find some Dutch clients.
mikeseo
2020-04-22 04:26
imho depends how much money you're making, if you're not making much than you won't pay much in tax so could choose fr/nl/be/de/etc, more developed western country, citizenship should be more of a sure thing straightforward process.
but if you're making a lot than it's worth trying your luck with less developed more fuzzy naturalization like pt and saving money on tax
mikeseo
2020-04-22 04:28
maybe if you're gonna pay less than 100k in tax over 5yrs, than choose a western country where there's lots of immigrants getting citizenship and naturalization is 99% guaranteed
mikeseo
2020-04-22 04:29
but if you're gonna pay 100k in tax every year...than choose pt and nhr. maybe just spend your final 1-2yrs fulltime in pt before you apply
mikeseo
2020-04-22 04:30
or buy a Caribbean passport for 100k and get a gr golden visa for 250k or whatever
noahlibbyhaines
2020-04-22 04:37
Mike, thanks, I don't expect to be making a whole lot the next 2 years...probably in the 50-100K USD/yr range. It's not enough that'd I'd worry too much about taxes imposed due to my residency over the next 5-7 years, but more about the tax implications of holding citizenship. Say, for example, France taxes worldwide income on non-resident citizens, but Portugal only taxes non-resident citizens on Portuguese income.....then that would swing it to Portugal for me. Same could probably be said for Netherlands.
redareda9
2020-04-22 04:45
You need to know that France is considering taxing citizens wherever they live (as USA and Eritrea), it was suggested many times. I have French citizenship and I?m considering acquiring a new one just in case.
house.leelah
2020-04-22 06:41
has joined #citizenship
mikeseo
2020-04-22 07:19
what's the easiest country in the EU to get rid of your tax residency when you leave? Are there any EU countries that don't require you to establish a new tax residency?
frederic.scheffer
2020-04-22 07:26
@redareda9 which citizenships are you eyeing?
redareda9
2020-04-22 08:53
@frederic.scheffer I didn?t dig really deep but Singapore sounds like a good option. I need one with similar or more Travelling power than France and with low risk of citizenship tax.
redareda9
2020-04-22 08:53
@mikeseo no idea for EU. I left my residency by setting a new one in Asia?s
brent
2020-04-22 09:05
@redareda9 Singapore doesn't officially allow dual-citizenship....
brent
2020-04-22 09:06
But I'm not sure about this in practice (I've heard of a number of people keeping their other one after obtaining SG citizenship)
redareda9
2020-04-22 09:06
Yes. They are thinking about it
redareda9
2020-04-22 09:06
It was suggested and I think they will vote for or against it in 2021
brent
2020-04-22 09:07
Interesting..
brent
2020-04-22 09:08
It would be a powerful one to have...
brent
2020-04-22 09:08
But at the very least, residency would still be good..
burrup.lambert
2020-04-22 15:21
I thought it took 20 years to become naturalised in Singapore?
kipianiucha
2020-04-22 16:04
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simon
2020-04-22 17:14
You can apply for Singapore citizenship after two years of permanent residency. https://www.ica.gov.sg/PR/citizenship/PR_citizenship_becomeasc
simon
2020-04-22 17:15
From what I've heard, however, it's pretty hard to get permanent residency and even harder to get citizenship. They want to see significant ties (spending most of your time there, financially independent, well educated and ideally local friends, family etc)
vinodgn0088
2020-04-22 18:09
Don't just fall for the minimum requirement rule for PR or Citizenship in Singapore. Your chances are high only if your spouse is a Singaporean. Else, you need to be a HNWI who can invest something like 10M SGD and generate a good number of jobs for locals.
vinodgn0088
2020-04-22 18:10
@simon well said. Reality is different and getting PR or citizenship in Singapore is very very difficult now
danz
2020-04-22 19:16
@mikeseo The Netherlands I would expect. You can basically fill in one page if you like to leave.
michael
2020-04-23 04:51
I have friends who have obtained PR in SG in the past year or so. As Simon said, you have to show that you have ties to SG and are contributing to the country. Some of them travel about 50% of their time out of SG.
g.malagaris
2020-04-23 07:43
has joined #citizenship
daoway
2020-04-23 08:32
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jpagp3
2020-04-24 03:26
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markusrahr
2020-04-24 07:08
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odufey
2020-04-26 06:36
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sterk
2020-04-26 08:30
@sterk has left the channel
alejandro
2020-04-27 13:08
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nechita.beniamin
2020-04-27 22:18
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jase
2020-04-29 18:58
My wife is an Italian citizen, we've been married for a decade and I don't speak a word of Italian. Anyone know of a way I can get citizenship without B1 prevalence in the language? I'm a slow learner. :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:
mikeseo
2020-04-30 00:32
@jase did they say it's a requirement? they told us at the IT embassy in Manila that the spouse needs to apply and it will take a minimum of 4yrs but they didn't elaborate on all the requirements
jase
2020-04-30 06:20
I have read multiple times now that it's a requirement. I'd like to out my best foot forward for the whole process, don't know if I should be hiring a lawyer for it @mikeseo
buynps.org
2020-05-01 06:40
any experience shares with citizenships with investment?
ktos.zajal.moj.login
2020-05-02 21:10
has joined #citizenship
demmbox
2020-05-06 06:38
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madalina.gheorghica
2020-05-07 05:59
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ryan
2020-05-08 03:46
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benjamin
2020-05-08 07:09
Also interested in this. Yet to meet someone who has actually gone through the process
michael878
2020-05-09 02:45
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redouan.benechehab
2020-05-09 07:50
has joined #citizenship
buynps.org
2020-05-10 00:26
haven?t heard much
martichoualex
2020-05-10 08:50
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info697
2020-05-11 14:41
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ryan.messmer14
2020-05-11 19:26
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tamg1982
2020-05-12 12:17
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fenix5
2020-05-15 08:04
Anyone fancy Russian passport? It looks that now it's going to be very easy https://www.rt.com/russia/488639-russia-permanent-residency-foreigners/?fbclid=IwAR1hSrpGrS0J8SnhzIRvzL0im2eSaybaT1kNjQ3SZyFUUq0tdKIovz9WtmM
jase
2020-05-15 08:17
5 year's residency @fenix5? 13% tax rate. Must be in Russia for 6 months each year. Never been there but could be interesting to the right people.
fenix5
2020-05-15 10:49
Me neither and since I 've grown up in Poland under USSR rule I don't feel like going there. But maybe someone will find it usefull. $13k investment for permanent residency sounds ok. :wink:
jase
2020-05-15 10:57
Fully understand - I have friends from Warsaw and it's clear they have left a long lasting impression.
jase
2020-05-15 10:58
I've never been to Russia - quite a few Russians here in Andorra so I'm guessing there's good reason to leave.
internationalbits
2020-05-16 22:15
same here!
ryan059
2020-05-18 20:18
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eduard543
2020-05-20 22:23
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7070140
2020-05-26 10:06
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kris
2020-05-27 19:26
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letstalk
2020-05-27 20:55
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markus
2020-05-29 07:23
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isaac.cu
2020-05-31 06:21
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matt134
2020-06-03 08:43
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ahsmithers
2020-06-09 09:32
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joshuacolombi
2020-06-09 11:32
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p_patruni
2020-06-11 17:28
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nsh
2020-06-11 22:39
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rtiagm
2020-06-14 11:21
Has anyone here bought citizenship ?
fujimoto.fjc
2020-06-16 03:12
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wice90
2020-06-18 08:19
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enimos
2020-06-21 13:04
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alexis.alfroy
2020-06-23 09:35
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providedsolutions.ad
2020-06-24 07:55
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sarah
2020-06-25 01:57
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elbriella
2020-06-25 12:04
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axel.gay1997
2020-06-26 01:40
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burrup.lambert
2020-07-02 02:46
Although it happened it February, I only found out today: The Supreme court of Argentina *abolished* the Spanish language test to get *naturalised*. Still a good idea to learn Spanish as the judge will like it but it removes some pressure for sure! Immigration lawyers are currently looking at how it is implemented by the lower courts as state decisions are not always automatic as they should be...
simon
2020-07-02 04:32
@burrup.lambert That is surprising news! I guess the only significant requirement left is the two years of physical residency?
asarun72
2020-07-02 05:25
@simon any tax residency benefits with AR other than a passport ?
simon
2020-07-02 05:33
@asarun72 Tierra del Fuego is somewhat of a tax haven, due to exemptions on income / wealth / profits etc taxes. I read somewhere that the exemptions might be phased out in the near future but can?t find the link anymore.
asarun72
2020-07-02 05:33
Thanks :pray:
burrup.lambert
2020-07-02 22:15
Yep, just have to meet the minimum required stay each year (6 months, though more is better) and resubmit the visa paperwork each year.
No tax benefits for Argentina, they tax on world wide income, though you can probably fly under the radar.
As Simon mentioned Tierra del Fuego/Ushuaia has some tax incentives but I don't know anyone who has taken it up.
buynps.org
2020-08-04 18:16
```The government of St. Lucia has introduced a new option into its citizenship by investment portfolio. The Covid-19 Relief Bond was launched on 12th May and will run until 31st December 2020.
Applicants can now invest from $250,000 for a single appplicant or $300,000 for a family of four. The bonds, which are at 0% interest need to be held for five years. Further government fees and due diligence fees apply.
With the return of capital after 5 years the bonds will have a lower total outlay than the existing $100,000 donation. Applicants need to consider of course that their capital is tied up with zero return for that time period. Current bonds in St. Lucia are issued between 1% and 3% and historic bonds between 5% and 7%.```
simon
2020-08-04 19:13
That?s an interesting option, although the 30000+ USD administrative fee is a bummer. Thanks for sharing @buynps.org
rtiagm
2020-08-05 13:41
After 5 years you get your money, citizenship and a passport?
buynps.org
2020-08-05 13:59
@simon given that St. Lucia has taxation on residency and stuff - what?s the value in having this additional passport? Travel? Why would anyone with a Canadian or Australian passport get one of these?
buynps.org
2020-08-05 13:59
@rtiagm I think you would get it now after you invest
simon
2020-08-05 14:03
Travel and privacy. Travel mainly applies to those with weak passports while privacy applies to everyone (for example, if you do not want your ?real? nationality listed anywhere).
simon
2020-08-05 14:06
Ah and I forgot to mention it but the CARICOM countries have freedom of movement, to a certain extent, and this can be useful if you want to live in one of the member countries. https://caricom.org/member-states-and-associate-members/
marziovit
2020-08-05 14:16
And most importantly to fool CRS by opening your Swiss bank account with your St. Lucia passport while comfortably living in your hight tax countyr :joy:
buynps.org
2020-08-05 14:21
yeah i see,
buynps.org
2020-08-05 14:21
privacy is an interesting one
pragmatic
2020-08-05 14:50
Speaking of privacy, could one theoretically change their name, only in the jurisdiction of their new passport :wink: ?
simon
2020-08-05 15:02
Yes, this should be possible (especially in the common law Caribbean countries).
bartek
2020-08-05 15:05
Isn't it mandatory in that kind of situation that you should inform on changing your name in your other jurisdiction? I mean, wouldn't be any repercussion because of that fact later on?
simon
2020-08-05 15:11
I?m not sure if it?s mandatory but if it is, I don?t see how it would be enforced.
buynps.org
2020-08-05 15:33
What happens if you get caught with 2 passports with different names?
jerrycjchang
2020-08-05 15:42
what law is that against?
marziovit
2020-08-05 16:14
This is amazing! I'm already feeling like James Bond :stuck_out_tongue:
bigworld
2020-08-05 16:35
First of all, you have to inform your other countries where you are national that you changed your name. Same as you get a new passport. You have to, but enforcing it is beyond the interest of any country, I believe.
Is it possible to have two different names in two different passports? Yes, and it happens.
Think for example in countries where wife takes husband last name, but she is also national of a country that doesn't permit to change your name under no normal circumstances.
simon
2020-08-05 17:01
Yeah and it?s also common with immigrants changing their names so that they sound local (Maria to Mary for example).
burrup.lambert
2020-08-06 00:24
Anyone on a Panama FNV who plans to apply for citizenship or has already obtained it? Or even just on a FNV in general?
buynps.org
2020-08-06 00:44
@burrup.lambert i think the first batch is just applying now. haven?t heard of anyone getting it. have you?
burrup.lambert
2020-08-06 00:48
IIRC Panama posts a public list of everyone who gets naturalised every year (names redacted) and their nationalities. Last time I looked it seemed most where from other Spanish speaking countries and not FNV countries though.
I'm curious to know if people are actually getting citizenship by spending the minimum 1 day there a year.
buynps.org
2020-08-06 01:08
@burrup.lambert panama doesn?t allow for dual citizenship, so you?re supposed to renounce your old citizenship
buynps.org
2020-08-06 01:08
i heard they publish the names as well - where did you see the list?
buynps.org
2020-08-06 01:08
the requirements for the citizenship, one of them is to speak spanish, pass the test for history
buynps.org
2020-08-06 01:09
not sure - maybe to also keep your centric life there, with receipts of rent, food, etc
mikeseo
2020-08-06 02:28
afaik they aren't going to naturalize regular guys who spend a minimal amount of time there, supposedly even guys living there full time don't get naturalized easily, depends on the current gov.
buynps.org
2020-08-06 02:29
@mikeseo do you think if you pay lawyers extra they can do it?
mikeseo
2020-08-06 02:34
I think you need to pay bribes to the gov
mikeseo
2020-08-06 02:34
invest in panama, open a big company and hire a lot of people, be a famous person, etc
mikeseo
2020-08-06 02:35
same with paraguay
buynps.org
2020-08-06 02:37
you serious?
mikeseo
2020-08-06 03:05
ya imho
mikeseo
2020-08-06 03:10
I went to PA and PY and got the residences thinking I could get the citizenships after 3-5yrs like the rules say. I flew back a couple times over the next few years to maintain them. Eventually I gave up, it was a pain in the ass to fly down there, and realized there was no chance of getting citizenship with minimal time/money.
buynps.org
2020-08-06 03:23
how many years has it been in PA?
buynps.org
2020-08-06 03:23
the program started in 2012 right-
buynps.org
2020-08-06 03:24
so people are just entering now in their 7-8th year
buynps.org
2020-08-06 03:24
> By Executive Decree 343 of May 16th, 2012, the migratory subcategory for permanent residence�_Friendly Nations_�was created, under which citizens of specific countries, with economic or professional ties with Panama, can apply for residence status.
burrup.lambert
2020-08-06 03:27
Didn't know you tried PA too, thought it was just Paraguay.
burrup.lambert
2020-08-06 03:28
Can't remember. Someone linked it to me last time there was a Panama FHV discussion.
mikeseo
2020-08-06 04:24
ya both
mikeseo
2020-08-06 04:26
imho you gotta go to 1st world countries if you want them to follow the naturalization rules without bribes
buynps.org
2020-08-08 00:15
They said St Lucia turned into territorial taxation, interesting
simon
2020-08-08 08:55
Deloitte also shows that on this year?s highlights:
https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/global/Documents/Tax/dttl-tax-stluciahighlights-2020.pdf
julienduteurtre
2020-08-11 10:22
As anyone thought about Turkish citizenship by investment, it is the cheapest (in real cost) at the moment, any pro & cons ?
buynps.org
2020-08-31 05:05
interested as well
buynps.org
2020-08-31 05:05
buynps.org
2020-08-31 05:05
> The developer is offering investors a guaranteed rental return of 8% for 3 years, making this an ideal option for foreign investors looking to gain Turkish Citizenship. The�https://www.goldenvisas.com/turkey�programme is available to applicant?s purchasing real estate at or above $250,000, plus costs. This project qualifies for the programme.
buynps.org
2020-08-31 05:05
seems pretty not bad, right?
alexbadaoui1
2020-09-08 14:28
@buynps.org some people get harrased by thier governments (such as australia) and decide to move to the carribean. You never know when a second passport will be needed. If you have only one you are a prisoner
danz
2020-09-08 16:26
The citizenship by investment in Turkey is pretty popular for Chinese and other citizens as it doesn't require to much yet. I just would be hesitant of the 8% offered, sounds like most of the times to good to be true with apartments..
danz
2020-09-08 16:30
Plus you gotta keep in the mind the political problems with Turkey, I don't see them joining the EU either anytime soon as was expected only a few years ago. And the currency only being worth less and less.
buynps.org
2020-09-08 16:31
good point
tmclayson
2020-09-09 08:48
What is the advantage of Turkish citizenship in a nutshell?
My wife could claim it if we wanted, but not sure what the benefit is.
jason
2020-09-09 16:11
Any other dual Italian citizens on here? Just curious!
burrup.lambert
2020-09-09 16:16
I agree with this WHOLEHEARTEDLY (Australian citizen). You're passport is your golden ticket, your government can revoke it at anytime for any reason leaving you a prisoner in whatever country you are in (your home country or another).
benjamin
2020-09-09 16:42
True. But, at the moment a large number of dual citizens aren't even able to leave Australia due to their outward travel ban. So they're basically prisoners anyway.
Covid is an extreme scenario but who knows the future.
ggiampieri
2020-09-09 18:23
@jason italians, not dual so far
jason
2020-09-09 18:40
@ggiampieri still good to know, I'll potentially renounce US citizenship in the future..
burrup.lambert
2020-09-09 22:56
All the more reason to leave the place regardless of your citizenship!
mikeseo
2020-09-09 23:51
ya I got IT from ancestry
jason
2020-09-10 18:14
@mikeseo same, took me 2 years and four consulate appointments to get it done..
jase
2020-09-10 19:46
My wife dragged her heels to get gets, so now I need to be B1 proficient in Italian to get it via marriage :expressionless:
mikeseo
2020-09-10 23:29
took me 2-3yrs, a handful of appointments, requesting papers from a bunch of different gov offices around the US, and paying a lawyer in Italy ~2k EUR to challenge the 1948 rule that says women can't pass citizenship
mikeseo
2020-09-10 23:30
@jase did your wife already get it? they told my wife she needs a bunch of documents to apply and than it will take a minimum of 4yrs. We didn't discuss language requirements... We keep putting it off and haven't applied yet.
jase
2020-09-11 13:02
Yeah my wife is Italian. I am thinking of getting some US lawyer to apply for me or something. Someone who knows the ins and outs and had the connections.
jason
2020-09-11 21:36
My wife's name is one letter off on our marriage cert, getting that fixed now.. but yeah, it's a long road for a spouse to get the Italian citizenship now
burrup.lambert
2020-09-15 00:44
More anyone considering Argentinian citizenship > https://baexpats.org/threads/i-got-my-citizenship-after-6-years.42920/
https://baexpats.org/threads/i-got-my-citizenship-after-6-years.42920/post-393051
Long story short.
Do it legit, don't do tourist visa runs or overstay a tourist visa, get LEGAL temporary residency (e.g Rentista Visa).
Hire a competent lawyer.
Hope you don't get any snags like misspellings on paperwork.
Don't have any criminal conviction.
mikeseo
2020-09-15 02:03
so it took his gf 3 yrs doing it legit with no criminal record?
burrup.lambert
2020-09-15 12:34
Yes. I've actually met both him and his gf in real life. And I can tell you that the main difference is the lawyer they used. He used a lawyer who frequents that forum (bajo_cero2) and whom he is referring to. His girlfriend used the lawyer who I am using. Can't remember exactly why they did it like that but they did. I'm pretty sure that the lawyer he eventually ended up getting residency through is the same one as his girlfriend and myself.
mikeseo
2020-09-15 15:24
how much time does the lawyer recommend spending in argentina each year? Do you have to pay taxes?
burrup.lambert
2020-09-15 15:52
If you do a Rentista visa you have to spend 6 months each year in Argentina to maintain it. Your Rentista visa is your temporary residency (1 year renewable). However if your goal is to apply for citizenship you should spend more than the minimum period, more the better, I'd say 9 months. I've already spent over 10 months here without batting an eyelid (COVID helped though). Next year I will probably get out of here for winter (too cold).
I have been told that taxes should not be an issue, and if there is an issue it will not be much as you should only be taxed on your Rentista payments (what you are bringing into Argentina to qualify for your visa). It's a bit of a grey area.
simon
2020-09-15 16:12
@burrup.lambert I guess you need to renew the rentista visa for the third year as well, while you wait for your citizenship application to be approved?
burrup.lambert
2020-09-15 19:11
Yes you need to renew it and continue as normal until you get it, not just disappear while it's being approved, plus it could take a few years. It's all just best guess.
chaostar
2020-09-21 21:36
It's been a while since I last checked out Slack. Happy to see it active, but being an Argentinian-born citizen, I wonder why on Earth would you want to get that residency when everyone is trying to get away. Argentina is the Titanic right now...
chaostar
2020-09-21 21:37
Check out Uruguay, it's really a better choice right now and quite easy to get residency. I'm actually living here in Uruguay at least until I get the Italian citizenship by blood lineage.
chaostar
2020-09-21 21:38
(that sounded dramatic... I meant bc I have an Italian ancestor)
burrup.lambert
2020-09-22 00:29
I don't want residency. I want citizenship. Using the same logic I could ask why do you want Italian citizenship as they are the Titanic of Europe ;).
ivan.lakatos
2020-09-22 02:34
But he said he doesn't want residency, he wants citizenship :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:
bobriakov.igor
2020-09-22 07:13
@chaostar care to elaborate a bit what exactly is going wrong with Argentina right now?
bigworld
2020-09-22 13:20
In the 1950s Argentina was among the countries with the highest rent per capita on the world. Since then Argentina is probably the only country that has managed to move from a rich country to a third world country. All by themselves.
Still worsening.
simon
2020-09-22 13:34
To put things into perspective, a hundred years ago Argentina was on par, economically-speaking, with countries like Australia, Canada and the US. As bigworld said, they then managed to run their entire economy into the ground, along with pretty much everything that had made it a rich country.
Argentina still has a lot of talent, as well as natural resources, so a reversal would be possible but this would imply major political / social changes.
gastan
2020-09-22 16:48
I am afraid it's highly unlikely they (Argentina) will make it any better in foreseeable future. Seeing as the rest of the world is going socialistic (USA for example). I believe Argentina's talent is leaving for greener pastures en masse.
But back to OP: AFAIK Argentinian passport is quite good to travel on. Also from what I've seen, it could be quite nice to live in Argentina some part of the year if you have some external income and know how to convert it properly to local currency...Provided, of course you like red meat, red wine, outdoors... maybe even cities...
burrup.lambert
2020-09-22 21:09
That's the plan!
bobriakov.igor
2020-09-23 10:28
yeah, I've heard Buenos Aires was on par with New York about century ago or so
bobriakov.igor
2020-09-23 10:29
speaking of trends, recently I spotted interesting and quite new book called "The coming of neo feudalism" which covers recent economic and other societal trends, such as shrinking of middle class etc.
buynps.org
2020-10-05 18:29
> That?s why most of the Caribbean?s citizenship by investment programs are now ON SALE:
>
> -Tax-free St. Kitts and Nevis is offering citizenship to a family of four for price of a single applicant, now just $150,000
>
> Dominica has also dropped the family price to just $175,000
>
> My personal citizenship of St. Lucia has introduced a ?Relief Bond? that reduces the donation to just $30,000 if you invest in government bonds
> Grenada has relaxed its qualifications to allow extended families to apply together
simon
2020-10-05 18:54
@buynps.org The St Lucia relief bond option is interesting but I wonder about the default risk over the 5 to 7 year period. This IMF report doesn?t paint a rosy picture... https://www.imf.org/~/media/Files/Publications/CR/2020/English/1LCAEA2020001.ashx
internationalbits
2020-10-05 22:02
that's still 250k in bonds to keep for 5 years + 30k fee. pretty expensive still
jason
2020-10-06 00:34
I'd really like visa free travel to Russia, maybe one day I'll pick up a St. Kitts passport, but for now I'll just do the damn paperwork.
buynps.org
2020-10-06 02:45
you think a country can default on the bonds?
buynps.org
2020-10-06 02:45
can?t they just borrow more money or print more?
buynps.org
2020-10-06 02:45
:smile:
simon
2020-10-06 08:02
St Lucia can?t print its way out of a tricky situation as they use the XCD (the Caribbean equivalent of the Euro). And they can?t borrow more than what investors are willing to lend them either. I?m not sure what the default risk is here but it?s not insignificant, especially if tourism doesn?t return to pre-pandemic levels rapidly.
burrup.lambert
2020-10-14 17:56
simon
2020-10-14 18:06
I?m not surprised, the EU has been giving Cyprus a hard time recently over its CIP.
mb
2020-10-15 07:55
Interesting report. I guess the most surprising to me, was the fact that you can essentially take on a new identity by getting a complete new name on a new Cypriot passport.
bountybairn
2020-10-16 10:42
There's a lot of empty properties in cyprus, newly built but only for the purposes of a passport, with no intention to ever live in them.
bountybairn
2020-10-16 10:43
The minister in charge of this area of policy has been arrested or at least questioned on corruption charges also, so it seems like someones gravy train has now ended.
nemanja.mirkovicru87
2020-10-16 10:52
Logic says that property prices will plummet in Cyprus now, right?
mb
2020-10-16 11:04
Although, once the 'dust' has settled, I'm sure some way or the other, it's back to business.
tiagomdreganha
2020-10-16 11:48
Portugal's golden visa is also taking Lisbon and Porto properties (the main cities) out of the map, so you'd have to invest out of them. It's meant to relief the pressure on real estate prices that have been increasing to unsustainable levels for locals
alex720
2020-10-16 15:15
>Logic says that property prices will plummet in Cyprus now, right?
Probably not immediately since they might announce a new program
alex720
2020-10-16 15:15
And I?m pretty sure people who become Cyprus citizens can?t sell their Property for a while
alex720
2020-10-16 15:16
So when the mandatory hold period ends , we should see some price drops . Assuming there is no new program
burrup.lambert
2020-10-16 16:52
Hey @simon, I have a Canadian friend who wants to get an EU passport. I told her about the French citizenship hack and she's interested. Do you know anyone who has done it recently? Do you have a link to the immigration regulations/act/legislation etc?
simon
2020-10-16 22:35
@burrup.lambert I do not know anyone who?s recently applied for French citizenship without first having lived there for a few years (the shortest being two years). Here?s the link to the section of the civil code that explains the exemption (21-20): https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/id/LEGISCTA000006165459/2020-10-16/
burrup.lambert
2020-10-17 14:16
Thanks. She's currently in Argentina too and is considering which is the best/quickest path. Considering she has already been in Argentina due to COVID she's already done around 8 of the required 24 months for Argentinian naturalisation. Thanks for the link! I told her to get hold of a French immigration attorney.
marziovit
2020-10-19 09:24
@simon what are the benefits of having a second passport business wise (i'm not talking about obvious benefits like giving up US tax citizenship)? Does people want a second passport so that they could start offshore companies while continue living in high tax countries without them know it?
simon
2020-10-19 09:38
@marziovit You?d need a plan that is airtight to get away with doing this. The main benefits for most, from a business perspective, are going to be easier access to services (for example, getting a first world passport will make it a lot easier to open bank accounts), risk management if they are perpetual travellers (traveling on one passport, doing all their business on the other limiting the risk of being caught working remotely), assets protection (using one citizenship as a safe haven for assets) etc.
simon
2020-10-19 09:39
There are very few downsides to having multiple citizenship, especially if you can acquire them easily.
marziovit
2020-10-19 11:27
@simon i'm obviously missing something here. Isn't the second passport showing where do you actually live? If your register a company or a bank account with the second passport they will link it to the residency of the first passport.
simon
2020-10-19 11:37
@marziovit Not all passports show your residency information. For example, my passport (Canada) doesn?t show any details regarding where I live (and no details regarding my tax ID either).
marziovit
2020-10-19 11:43
@simon ok lets do a practical example using Canada and your instant French citizenship hack. You gain French citizenship and a French passport, you start a US LLC with your French passport and you continue to live in Canada. Will Canada ever know what you are doing if you don't do anything stupid like wiring money in Canada from your US bank account that you opened with your French passport?
simon
2020-10-19 11:53
@marziovit It would be safer to do it the other way around (use the Canadian passport to setup the LLC and live in France) as the French passport will show my place of birth.
As long as you are quiet about it, do not publish your name / details online, the risk that the French authorities would find out about it is negligible.
simon
2020-10-19 11:55
Obviously you?ll need to figure out a ?safe? way to spend your profits in France.
simon
2020-10-19 11:56
And you can?t get caught as it?s a pretty clear cut case of tax evasion / money laundering.
marziovit
2020-10-19 12:06
@simon what are the risks when starting a company using your French passport while living in Canada? Who is going to report you? The agent? I'm asking because you are a registered agent so maybe you know the answer.
simon
2020-10-19 12:50
No agent / registry will report you (especially in Wyoming, where you are not required to provide any ID details), it?s the banks you have to worry about. If they have any doubts regarding your situation, they will likely ask for both tax IDs (France and Canada).
There?s also a risk if you have to file any returns for your business, as you?ll likely have to lie about your tax residency situation and that?s a criminal offence in most countries.
jason
2020-10-19 13:35
My long term goal is to eventually renounce US citizenship, and setup a residency in a tax friendly place like Panama, etc, and then use my EU citizenship to travel around, but never stay long enough anywhere to be a declared a tax resident. No need to be shady and risk getting in trouble.
mikeseo
2020-10-19 21:26
seems like an ideal situation would be to have 3 condos in FR/CA/US and spend 4 months in each
ouafouaf
2020-10-23 01:10
I'm still thinking moving or to Panama or Costa Rica, I tried PY onces, stayed 6 months there but didnt really like the weather, way too hot. I beleive that PY is one of those very corrupt places where you can "pay" someone to get your file moved upon the pile...and get residency or whatever as long as you're ready to cash.
ouafouaf
2020-10-23 01:11
I have contact there if you really want to check something. (not for moving your file above though :grin:)
ouafouaf
2020-10-23 01:15
Cons, : constant political nightmare, Pro : great culture, food, landscape...
ouafouaf
2020-10-23 01:20
Guys, did you know you can get Italian passport if you can proove your ancester moved out of Italy at some time - at least this benefit is applied to most South am Latinos, as for Brasilians, and I know of few who got their Itanlian ID thanks to this old treaty.
mikeseo
2020-10-23 23:11
ya we got it
mikeseo
2020-10-23 23:12
MX is my favorite, best food, can forward from amazon without taxes, girls aren't very friendly though
burrup.lambert
2020-11-11 15:07
You only need 1 year of residency in Portugal now to qualify for _jus soli_. Golden visa holders count. It used to be 2 years.
https://www.imidaily.com/editors-picks/portugal-to-allow-birthright-citizenship-from-tomorrow-major-win-for-golden-visa/
mb
2020-11-11 15:16
Interesting. I assume this doesn't apply to people having Portuguese parents, but being born elsewhere in the world? From what I understand from reading what your shared, this applies to children born in Portugal, from foreign (non Portuguese / legal or illegal) parents.
internationalbits
2020-11-11 15:28
very nice
sergiy.shlykov
2020-11-11 15:50
Can this work with getting jus soli in CA/US and if one of the parents is a Portuguese resident, getting it in Portugal after 1y?
burrup.lambert
2020-11-11 16:52
Are you talking about the child or the parents? If I understand correctly the child will have dual nationality regardless:
- born in the USA (jus soli)
- with a Portuguese parent (jus sanguinis)
The parent will have whatever citizenship they already have. They won't get Portuguese citizenship just because the child has it. They would still have to be naturalised.
internationalbits
2020-11-11 16:55
honestly such a great law. good for illegals as much as for the mega rich or regular peeps.
sergiy.shlykov
2020-11-11 18:11
I meant for the child. Indeed, it should pass via jus sanguinis nonetheless.
redareda9
2020-11-14 11:15
frederic.scheffer
2020-11-16 16:41
Best realistic second passport options for a French/EU Citizen?
tiagomdreganha
2020-11-16 21:14
Probably Portugal, 5 years residency needed (during which you have the advantageous NHR tax scheme)
frederic.scheffer
2020-11-17 06:23
Thanks
alessio.zazzarini
2020-11-17 12:07
it has probably his reasons for that :slightly_smiling_face:
michael
2020-11-29 14:09
Yeah saw this too, now I've just got to convince my partner hahaha
rtiagm
2020-12-04 08:54
I?m not sure if this was already posted. Saint Lucia?s is giving citizenship to people that invest $250,000 in their covid-19 relief bond program.
buynps.org
2020-12-04 14:57
problem is the $30k fee
buynps.org
2020-12-04 14:57
to get it
prashantpawar
2020-12-08 00:44
We?re looking into Turkish citizenship (western passport here and no plan to renounce), it becomes a good balancing passport for your passport portfolio.
Turkey is one of largest economy in the world (19th largest), 17th largest population.
If you were in China, based on my understanding following CIP countries rescued people out of China:
? US - You had to pay for your own ticket which was a few thousand dollars.
? UK - includes all Carribean CIP countries since you?d be BOT citizen, although I need to confirm that.
? EU - French military evacuated you, for free.
? Turkey - Turkish military is pretty powerful in the world, and they even evacuated their (willing) citizens out of the US and EU during the covid peak.
So our intent is to get more ?consular? assistance options for us and Turkey is an interesting one (especially considering it isn?t a donation but an investment).
Regarding the political stuff, its obviously an issue at least currently. Now you?re going into speculative category. One line of thinking is that AKP is losing power every election, so soon Erdogan would be replaced. Other line of reasoning is that under Erdogan Turkey might be a better place.
Either way, for us, its a decent country, decent ?kind? of passport, and a great investment opportunity to get the passport.
nemanja.mirkovicru87
2020-12-08 09:14
What about your kids having to serve Turkish military? I read that you could potentially buy their way out of it but who knows what happens in 10-20 years
buynps.org
2020-12-08 14:08
@nemanja.mirkovicru87 wow they can make you do that?
nemanja.mirkovicru87
2020-12-08 14:48
I'd say 100% they can. Not sure if there is an option to pay or a document that you can get that confirms your sons won't have to serve.
prashantpawar
2020-12-09 00:04
They can do that, so can basically ANY country you hold a passport of.
@nemanja.mirkovicru87 the citizenship consultant was saying that there is a no-excuse-needed ?pay-the-fee-and-exempt-yourself? exception for Citizenship by investment applicant (the fee is around $2500). Also if you are a dual citizen or haven?t lived in the country for past 5-6 years then you are exempt from it (again, the fee might be relevant).
But I need to know where in the law does it say that for this. And it might not say that anywhere, just a convention.
prashantpawar
2020-12-09 00:06
But almost all the content I?m reading on the issue, it says that you are exempt from military service.
michael
2020-12-09 11:30
Was thinking about it.
michael
2020-12-09 11:30
Or the other CBI's
michael
2020-12-09 11:31
Thing is, I'm based out in Asia and it's a long journey to get there.
michael
2020-12-09 11:31
@prashantpawar thank you for sharing. are you using an agent to potentially apply for turkish citizenship?
prashantpawar
2020-12-09 19:10
Been talking to PropertyTurkey people.
They have a VERY information youtube channel and they come out as very reliable.
https://www.youtube.com/user/PropertyTurkeyCom
michael
2020-12-10 14:30
Thank you, will have a look! @prashantpawar =D
prashantpawar
2020-12-10 23:30
@danz If they?re offering you 8% guaranteed then you?re actually getting an overpriced property, and they are paying you that money from your own overpriced payment.
Helpful video on it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3LmAmssNKU&t=392s
internationalbits
2020-12-11 16:34
remember you also have the 500k USD locked up in a turkish bank of your choice option.
prashantpawar
2020-12-11 16:39
Property investment is far better I think, just look at the beautiful rivera properties there. Also growing population means more certainty about the returns (than bank returning your money back). Though for that certainity you need to invest in core properties (i.e. middle class dream homes in Istanbul, over rivera vacation homes).
internationalbits
2020-12-11 16:39
one more thing: Turkey does essentially zero DD on both the money and the background of the applicants. you know within a few years this will have attracted a number of certain profiles. they don't currently care about it internally until the next scandal happens, internationally though this will have its effects sooner than that.
nonetheless, it is an interesting choice for citizenship as it's rather "easy".
internationalbits
2020-12-11 16:40
but as usual, things change and they do fast.
buynps.org
2020-12-12 00:39
@internationalbits do you think it?s still a good idea to go for citizenship in turkey?
prashantpawar
2020-12-15 19:03
In our case, we want a passport which will pass on to our kids and grand kids. Be treated as just a passport based on our identity (if possible).
If in a few years if the ?notoriety? becomes bad because of a scandal, they will introduce due diligence, but in the long run, Turkey can?t be ?punished? for the program.
But again, this is my belief.
ambroise.debret
2020-12-21 09:08
Salut @frederic.scheffer, je suis en train d?obtenir le passeport canadien mais je lance mon NHR donc je ferai les d�marches pour le passeport portuguais aussi. Avantages int�ressant quand tu veux acheter de l?immo au Portugal : 10% d?apport (vs. 20% normalement)
prashantpawar
2020-12-23 15:48
July 1st, 2021 is the deadline when Lisbon/Porto/Coastal properties will become ineligible for Portuguese Golden Visa.
https://www.imidaily.com/program-updates/govt-confirms-golden-visa-days-numbered-for-cities-not-necessarily-bad-news-say-stakeholders/
internationalbits
2020-12-24 02:37
@buynps.org sure, depends on what do you want it to do. can you park 500k or buy and manage real estate in instanbul easily? if so, why not go for it
sidaitov
2020-12-28 22:13
Hi all. A theoretical question: when holding multiple EU citizenships with unlinked financial history, would changing the surname within a one country only open any potential serious places for improvement?
simon
2020-12-28 23:25
@sidaitov You won?t gain financial / banking benefits from this but you could gain privacy-related benefits. For example, someone googling your new name (assuming they do not know your previous name) would be unlikely to find much about you pre-name change (not only ?regular? internet history but also companies you registered prior to the name change, any public filings etc).
sidaitov
2020-12-29 10:44
@simon Thanks for explaining it. I was thinking about benefits such as transfer of the tax residence but after reading your reply I got the feeling that it's safe to assume that countries unofficially share the information regarding their citizens tax duties to prevent cases like the one above. Did I got that right?
simon
2020-12-29 19:47
@sidaitov Banks in most countries (including all EU countries) are required to collect your tax ID (issued by your country of tax residence). From my understand of how CRS works, the banks would be able to report your information to your country of tax residence even if the names didn?t match.
gun
2021-01-01 23:01
I'm looking for an article I have read on collecting 'the big four' passports via naturalisation. I think it was on @simon's blog but I can't find it...
From memory there was a strategy to get NZ, Canada, Argentia + a European passport (Portugal?) within a time-period of about 5 years by carefully managing your time spent over that period?
...As an Australian I wouldn't need the NZ one I'm guessing, but very interested to open up Europe & the Americas
burrup.lambert
2021-01-01 23:38
Definitely doesn't sound feasible to me. IIRC Canada takes 5 years by itself and 3 of the 5 (in days) have to be spent within Canada.
simon
2021-01-01 23:44
It?s actually 1095 days over five years in Canada, with three years where you must qualify as a tax resident. The idea with the five year plan is to spend two years in Argentina (with 2-3 months in Canada, to bank days) and three in Canada (with a few months in Argentina to complete the process there). The Caribbean passport is acquired via an economic citizenship program and so is the EU passport. Obviously it may take a bit longer than 5 years to complete the whole plan but it?s doable if everything goes right.
gun
2021-01-02 07:43
Do you have an article or know more details? I can piece something together from what you've mentioned above otherwise
gun
2021-01-02 07:45
Which Carribbean + European passport would you recommend looking at to complete the set? Portugal?
burrup.lambert
2021-01-02 16:00
If you want to add on a couple more years instead of an EU CBI program, Argentinians qualify for fast-tracked 2 year naturalisation in Spain instead of the normal 10 years. Best bet is via a non-lucrative visa.
sergiy.shlykov
2021-01-02 16:14
Is there a caveat here that this works only for born Argentinians and not for naturalized?
simon
2021-01-02 16:20
You can read more at: https://www.freedomsurfer.com/ztn-home/
Antigua is a good option for the Caribbean citizenship as it?s only 100k, there is no personal income tax and you get Caricom freedom of movement.
Bulgaria is a good option for the EU as taxes are relatively low, you can get fast-track citizenship with an investment and there?s no physical presence / language requirements.
burrup.lambert
2021-01-02 20:45
Yes, the actual law states citizens *born* in Ibero-American countries, however I have heard in practice it does not matter, though I'm yet to find or read of anyone who has actually done it.
sergiy.shlykov
2021-01-02 21:58
Yeah Spain is laid back, hope they are as laid back during the application process :)
maxsuur
2021-01-04 17:46
and for Spanish Citizens who want to secure citizenship in the Americas? which would be a feasible option be?
koshis
2021-01-09 03:11
Hey @simon do you have a reccomended contact for the Antigua citizenship ?
chaostar
2021-01-13 06:06
Well, I hadn't accessed the Slack for quite a while and I see that the Argentinian citizenship thing has receded into the background. Good! Being an Argentinian, I can tell you that from my point of view Argentina is in a full on decadent pathway. Apparently it used to be a good country before the 50s but since then, and quite notably since the 90s, almost all indicators of an interesting place have entered a freefall, especially cultural and economical. Personally I think that there is a decadentist movement which took the form of the Peronist movement. It claims to be a sort of pro-social proposal but internally it is based on corruption and just power mongering. The governments oscillate between this Peronist type hypocritical pseudo socialist failures which burn up the culture and economy and explode inflation (yes, Argentina hasn't solved this basic economic feature) and stupid pseudo-liberal governments that just send tons of money to external corporations which leave little or no good in the country and invest very little. It's very sad for me to say this. 4 generations ago, my ancestors left from Europe and tried to start something good in Arg, and I can't see the point of trying to develop anything in Argentina. Now the economy is almost fully closed... you can't even pay something internationally without the government charging you 65% (yes!) and taking that from the stupid foreign currency monthly limit of USD 200. Don't even try to get paid from abroad into Arg or you will get your money forcibly exchanged into pesos at the ridiculous official rate (which is half the real rate). It is a very beautiful and mighty land and some of the humans on it are amazing, but the decadentist nuke is just too deeply buried now.
burrup.lambert
2021-01-13 18:39
Don't say that, I live here :smile:, and so do a few other people in Freedom Surfer.
Agree on most points. Argentina is broken in many ways: the financial system, economy, government. But if you make money in ANY OTHER currency besides the Peso and you can "disconnect" from the systems that cause you grief, it is a great and VERY cheap place to live. The main issue if you are living here is money, but it's easy to solve. You can use Western Union which most people do and send themselves money from their home country and pick it up in person every few weeks, or you can find a trusted contact (any expat group can refer you) who will accept your $ in an OS bank account, Paypal, crypto, cash, TransferWise etc for a rate close to the "blue" or CCL (what the economy runs on). Or if you manage to get a USD bank account here you can wire yourself USD for about 2.5% on the receiving end and get USD out of an ATM and then exchange that for Pesos.
As you are an Argentinian I understand your view put and many Argentinians feel the same. They all want to leave and when I tell them I'm from Australia that all wonder what I am doing here. The grass is always greener I suppose.
For those who wish to come to Argentina don't let @chaostar's post turn you off. Like most things in life there is a stark contrast between perceived risk and actual risk that is realised once your put boots on the ground.
ambroise.debret
2021-01-13 18:41
When I lived there I had family send me money via Ria Transfers for my daily expenses and it arrived in Pesos at the blue rate at the local branch of Ria :slightly_smiling_face:
burrup.lambert
2021-01-13 18:47
Yep there are lots of ways to get money sent here. It seems in general the expats go through phases (years apart) switching from one to another depending on what is the best rate an easiest. Xoom, Ria, World Remit, Azimo etc. Right now Western Union is the flavour of the month but lately the gap between the blue rate and the Western Union rate has widened, it used to be only a few pesos difference. My advice for anyone is to find a "source" that is consistent and good enough, and stick with it. I know people who say "have you seen the rate today", no, I haven't seen the rate today. I exchange my $ to pesos every couple weeks. If you do it that way you'll live a stress free life and always get the best rate averaged over time with more time to enjoy life and Argentina :slightly_smiling_face:.
burrup.lambert
2021-01-13 18:48
How is Uruguay @chaostar? Where about's are you? Have any Argentinians come over for the summer holidays?
chaostar
2021-01-13 23:35
Hi... yes, my comment was a bit of an outburst. Maybe it's stuck frustration from when the government started kidnapping my payments from abroad and converting them forcefully into pesos at the ridiculous rate, or the almost impossibility to use any internationally available financial technology, at least at the level at which I was operating, or starting to operate. Eventually I left on a sort of world tour, living in different places and working remotely and finally got a N26 account and also a Wells Fargo account when I was in the US (eventually they closed down my checking account due to getting distracted one month and letting it drain of funds but still have the partially crippled savings account). The feeling when you start to open up to the world financially and digitally is very frustrating in Argentina, being an Argentinian and initially having no resources abroad. Now I guess I could stay there and as you say send myself money using different channels but when the Covid thing started last year I was in Uruguay and my family has a property here and I just stayed and stayed. Covid was VERY light in 2020 in Uruguay, but now it's growing. I guess we'll see.
chaostar
2021-01-13 23:37
Now I'm trying to get the Italian citizenship. It makes so many things simpler financially. For example (there are tons of those examples), TransferWise until recently was not giving USD banking details to Argentinians to receive USD. Now something changed and they give you details but just for receiving transfers and payments from within the US, not to receive international transfers and payments. Why? Because you are not a citizen of Europe or the US or some other list of countries.
chaostar
2021-01-13 23:38
But I understand that coming from another country and having all your financial resources established based on the economies of Europe or the US or the "first world" (whatever that means), it can be a tempting option.
chaostar
2021-01-13 23:39
Uruguay is ok. But it's very expensive. Like 3x Argentina. I'm also in a very expensive area, Punta del Este. But very very beautiful. No, didn't have any family or friends come over because Uruguay closed all the borders due to the explosion of Covid.
chaostar
2021-01-13 23:40
People are much more relaxed in Uruguay than in Argentina. Argentinians (or maybe "porte�os" from Buenos Aires) tend to make fun of Uruguayans calling them their "little brothers" and calling Uruguay the "little country". And I'm a porte�o! I just need the possibility to be able to work, trade and move in the world beyond...
mb
2021-01-14 09:28
Makes sense now, why https://xapo.com/ was founded by an Argentinian :smile: @chaostar
mb
2021-01-14 09:29
But yes, I can imagine that being very frustrating. Quite frankly I'd feel my freedom taken from me. But I think perhaps when you grow up in Argentinian, you learn to live/deal with it to some level.
burrup.lambert
2021-01-14 19:43
100% get Italian citizenship, and any other that you can, even if it's in the EU, like Spanish. Yep, for TransferWise if you aren't on "the list" you don't get USD details.
https://transferwise.com/help/articles/2810318/why-cant-i-get-usd-account-details
You might also want to look at a Dukascopy (Bank or Europe, depending) in Switzerland. They are open to Argentinians and you can open one remotely, albeit you will have to send paperwork to Switzerland.
burrup.lambert
2021-01-14 19:45
Do you have residency in Uruguay? Are you able to move freely between Uruguay and Argentina with COVID?
chaostar
2021-01-14 23:09
@mb I'm trying to get into crypto but it's taking very long for some reason... and yes, I saw about this guy in a movie about crypto that I saw yesterday on Prime Video, and that was exactly what he said. That his family had lost so much during one of the recent Argentinian crises and this motivated him. You can't imagine how it is... in 2001 lots of people who had their money in USD in banks got that money forcibly converted to pesos at a ridiculous rates. So for them it was like losing their life savings. This sort of thing happens cyclically in Argentina. And governments insist on people trusting the peso for saving and not getting USD but in this way they are crippled. Right now if you want to pay for anything in USD with a card, the government charges 65% as "patriotic tax" and that money gets deducted from your monthly allowance of purchase of 200 USD. And even so, many people don't qualify even for that.
chaostar
2021-01-14 23:12
@burrup.lambert yeah, that's what I'm trying, but I'm missing one paper from my great great granfather and this is blocking things.
As for Uruguay, yes, I just got the residency. Uruguay is now "inviting" foreigners to live and invest here, it makes residency application very easy. I just applied, sent the required documents and had a brief interview in Montevideo and voila. No charge at all. But they have a special regime for residency for citizens of Mercosur countries (Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, Brasil), but anyway they are encouraging people from anywhere to come!!
I'll check out Dukascopy, thanks!!!
chaostar
2021-01-14 23:13
@mb national USD reserves in Argentina have constantly dwindled in recent years and so the government needs to keep USD at all costs. If they open the exchange market, people start buying USD like crazy.
burrup.lambert
2021-01-14 23:18
What are the requirements for citizens of Mercosur, specifically Argentina, to get residency in Uruguay? Is it temporary or permanent residency? How long is it valid for? What documents did you require? I assume your residency is under the Mercosur agreement of free movement of people between Uruguay and Argentina?
I plan to apply for Argentinian citizenship this year and take advantage of any further citizenship or residency pathways (like Uruguay) it would open up for me.
chaostar
2021-01-15 00:06
@burrup.lambert you can check the requirements in that site (there are two links for PDF files depending on whether you will do the in-person part in Montevideo or in a Uruguayan consulate abroad, but keep in mind that now all offices are closed for a while). You start the process online, upload all required documents and then get an appointment for doing the in-person part where you basically go and take the physical documents. No interview, nothing. And it is free, meaning you don't pay anything. And you get it. Documents are basically ID, certificate of criminal record, vaccination card (you can get that in Uruguay if you do it in Montevideo) and eventually they will ask for your apostilled birth certificate when you get the Uruguayan ID. That's it!
chaostar
2021-01-15 00:08
There is the site! But do check out that there are different types of residencies. Also two government bodies issue them which is a bit confusing.
This one I sent you is by the Ministerio de Relaciones Exteriores (Ministry of Foreign Relations). Then the Direccion Nacional de Migraciones issues two other types of residencies called Legal and Temporaria Mercosur, which have a little bit more requirements (proof of income, etc) and also they cost a little bit, very little. Very strange.
chaostar
2021-01-15 00:08
Maybe we should've discussed this in #residency
chaostar
2021-01-15 00:14
@burrup.lambert I forgot to tell you, now the situation for moving between Argentina and Uruguay is complicated. Uruguay has completely closed off the borders, even for Uruguayans! Until end of January. Before that the borders were closed for tourism but you could enter if you were citizen, resident or had specific exceptions (family reunion, legal reasons, work, investment, etc). So right now it's not so easy to enter. My parents (80 yrs old) are in Buenos Aires and can't come here. They haven't seen my 15 month old daughter for a year!
chaostar
2021-01-15 00:15
And what I got was the PERMANENT Mercosur residency but there is a temporary Mercosur residency and a "legal residency", as I said before. Not so clear categories...
chaostar
2021-01-15 00:16
If you have money and want to purchase property for USD 380,000 or approximately that, the Govt will not charge taxes for 10 years, and put a red carpet for you, all easy and fast. But I didn't invest anything and got the permanent residency in 1 month.
chaostar
2021-01-15 00:17
(My partner, my daughter and me)
chaostar
2021-01-15 00:18
Uruguay is amazing and very beautiful, like one of these "out of the world" countries... but if you get used to Argentinian prices, prepare for 3x the cost of life here.
chaostar
2021-01-15 00:23
This is where I live (Punta del Este):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjSc_zaO6CY
chaostar
2021-01-15 00:24
And this is interesting about Uruguay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzsCn_wKfbI
mb
2021-01-15 05:43
Tanks for sharing @chaostar. Why is it taking long for you?
burrup.lambert
2021-01-15 21:31
Thanks! I'll take a look at the requirements and so what I can do :smile:!
buynps.org
2021-01-17 18:32
got an email from nomad capitalist guys.. any one know about this citizenship?
> These ?back pocket? opportunities are those that you keep in case of an emergency.
> For example:
> One country grants residence to anyone who deposits $60,000 in a local bank, and citizenship in just three years with no physical presence needed.
tiagomdreganha
2021-01-17 20:03
I came here to ask the same thing
tiagomdreganha
2021-01-17 20:03
25k in gov bonds and citizenship in 3 years?
alex720
2021-01-18 00:10
@tiagomdreganha i think that?s Armenia
buynps.org
2021-01-18 00:14
@alex720 source??
alex720
2021-01-18 00:55
$20,000 in government securities for a residence permit
alex720
2021-01-18 00:55
Seems similar to what is mentioned in the email @buynps.org
alex720
2021-01-18 00:55
The 5k extra could be currency fluctuations or fees etc
tiagomdreganha
2021-01-18 13:34
60k deposit sounds like Costa Rica but it's 7 years to citizenship not 3
tiagomdreganha
2021-01-18 13:34
60k deposit sounds like Costa Rica (Rentista Visa) but it's 7 years to citizenship not 3
koshis
2021-01-18 15:36
I was thinking it sounds like Azerbaijan or Armenia also.
buynps.org
2021-01-18 15:38
interesting
lvasc
2021-01-18 20:33
@chaostar hey! you got your Uruguayan ID in 1 month?
chaostar
2021-01-18 20:34
I got the residency 1 month after presenting the documents. The ID card issuing office is closed now due to covidia...
chaostar
2021-01-18 20:34
But I think the Mercosur residencies are processed very fast
chaostar
2021-01-18 20:35
It's not exactly like EU but similar to an Italian applying for Spanish residency I think
chaostar
2021-01-18 20:35
Allows you to stay in the country and in my case to invite my parents here... Argentina is not in good shape now
chaostar
2021-01-18 20:35
(I'm Argentinian)
lvasc
2021-01-18 20:35
I?m Brazilian, same case as you I think
chaostar
2021-01-18 20:36
Ah si
chaostar
2021-01-18 20:36
Yes, check out the site
lvasc
2021-01-18 20:36
I was in Argentina like 2 weeks ago
chaostar
2021-01-18 20:37
You have to start the process online, upload documents (ID, criminal history, vaccines) and then get an appointment to present these in person in Montevideo but I think also the in-person thing is paused now at least until Jan 31
chaostar
2021-01-18 20:37
Borders are FULLY closed until Jan 31
chaostar
2021-01-18 20:38
Then to get the ID card you must make another appointment here also, but that office is also closed at least until Jan 31
lvasc
2021-01-18 20:38
yeah, I will start this only after vaccine.
I?m probably moving to BsAs, after this I will be starting both residences permits
lvasc
2021-01-18 20:39
(and I understand your frustration about Argentina, but after spend 1 month in BsAs, it?s def better(for me) than S�o Paulo) :stuck_out_tongue:
chaostar
2021-01-18 20:42
Where? Buenos Aires city?
chaostar
2021-01-18 20:42
If you like more natural environments, Cordoba province is very beautiful and nice to live in the "sierras" there...
chaostar
2021-01-18 20:43
Or in Patagonia, several places like Bariloche or others
chaostar
2021-01-18 20:43
(They don't ask for Covid vaccine, just that you comply with the Uruguayan program... if you don't have a card, they do a standard adult vaccine and give you the certificate, in Uruguay)
lvasc
2021-01-18 20:44
After this s*** maybe I can visit these places. I was in argentina between 12 Dec - 11 Jan and wasnt authorized to visit other places than BA province
lvasc
2021-01-18 20:45
Interesting
lvasc
2021-01-18 20:45
yes
chaostar
2021-01-18 22:32
I mean this while you being in Uruguay. But right now it's closed even for Uruguayans. And before that it was open only for nationals and residents. So it's not fully clear how you would enter the country to do the personal part of the process. Check the site and there is an email address to ask.
chaostar
2021-01-18 22:32
When you are here, you go to the vaccine places and they give you all required vaccines for free and enter you into the digital vaccine system of Uruguay.
chaostar
2021-01-18 22:33
@lvasc yeah that provincial blockages, it was crazy... i think now they opened a bit due to summer season so people can move. Which is ridiculous in terms of supposedly cutting the disemination of Covid.
burrup.lambert
2021-01-19 01:50
Anyone have a trust lawyer contact for Italian citizenship by descent applications and/or questions? Thanks.
mikeseo
2021-01-19 15:51
http://www.luigipaiano.com/en he got me mine for 2000-2500 EUR (had to do some court case cuz female ancestor)
omocha_10
2021-01-19 19:17
My mother?s cousin is on the way to get the Italian citizenship. Probably he knows someone.
omocha_10
2021-01-19 19:28
Argentina for a foreigner earning money abroad in tur PT/nomad lifestyle today is one of the best places to be, ridiculously cheap for the value you can get, lots of places with amazong nature and for younger ones Buenos Aires and it?s nightlife can be great too, plus no visa runs, and you can get a LATAM passport very fast.
burrup.lambert
2021-01-19 23:28
Thanks @omocha_10 ! That would be great!
burrup.lambert
2021-01-19 23:29
Thanks!
omocha_10
2021-01-20 13:04
You are looking for an Argentinian based one, right?
gun
2021-01-20 20:58
Thanks @burrup.lambert & @omocha_10 on the expat perspectives!
@omocha_10 which passport would you recommend first and which path?
Also... noone mentioned the most important thing: what are the women there like? :wink:
gun
2021-01-20 20:59
Argentina compared to Brazil & Colombia?
gun
2021-01-20 21:00
Mate. @ambroise.debret you're a very interesting man :wink: What country are we sharing a beer in next? Let's make it happen 2021 :beers:
ambroise.debret
2021-01-20 21:11
Haha no so bad yourself
ambroise.debret
2021-01-20 21:11
Mexico is where it?s at for me this winter !
ambroise.debret
2021-01-20 21:11
If you want more info check this out : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV5wA8Oa99o&ab_channel=ElizabethTravels
burrup.lambert
2021-01-20 21:48
@omocha_10 is referring to an Argentinian Passport as the "LATAM passport". You can apply once you have been *in the country* for 2 years (not residency, i.e, the time you are on a tourist passport, and while you are on a "Precaria" (when you actual residency is being processed), still count towards the 2 years).
burrup.lambert
2021-01-20 21:51
Women? As a foreigner you will do well :wink:. Argentinians are like half South American, half European. Apparently 60% of Argentinians have Italian ancestry, and if they don't have Italian, it would be Spanish.
jason
2021-01-21 01:53
Any other Italian citizens here? I'm trying to get some kind of Italian ID (easily) that I can use for authentication (along with my passport). I'd rather not have to travel to Italy and get a drivers license, hoping there is some other way.
jason
2021-01-21 01:54
Panama residency requires two forms of ID, I already have a codice fiscale, but the lawyers said no to that one.
jason
2021-01-21 01:57
yeah, for that case a lawyer is absolutely required I think, glad you got it though!
simon
2021-01-21 05:05
Can you get a national ID card?
jason
2021-01-21 14:02
Not currently, it seems only the EU consulates are distributing those and I'm registered at a consulate in the US.
jason
2021-01-21 14:07
but you're right, that's probably the ideal 2nd document to have =/
omocha_10
2021-01-22 14:38
He says he did the paperwork via an experienced translator, not through a lawyer or ?gestor?. I asked for that contact, when he gives it to me I?ll pass it to you.
omocha_10
2021-01-22 14:45
Women? Depends what do you like. Being a 1st world foreigner will give you some head start. Most of the etnicity is descendant from Europe(many from Spain and Italy).
Also there are many Paraguayan, Bolivian and Peruvian descendants. In the last decades Buenos Aires became a much more cosmopolitan city in a worldwide sense.
And in the late years there was a huge immigration of Venezuelan, Colombians and other central American countries.
So I guess what you are most likely to find are Spanish/Italian/Mediterranean style women.
burrup.lambert
2021-01-22 16:15
Thanks! An Argentinian one or a lawyer in Italy, both work!
kuka
2021-01-25 18:56
Got to know that I can get a Russian citizenship, is it good for anything specific?
ladislasmaurice
2021-01-26 08:40
A geopolitical hedge. Go for it.
jason
2021-01-26 19:44
It might not be today, but 10 years from now it could be great. I wish I had one.
ben659
2021-02-07 21:09
Does anyone here have real world experience of applying for Peruvian citizenship by naturalisation? I?m somewhat suspicious of the claim that it can be done after just two years, even if this is the minimum time requirement on paper.
omocha_10
2021-02-08 10:59
I don?t know about Peru, but I?m almoat sure the Argentinian one can be obtained in 2 years
tiagomdreganha
2021-02-08 13:10
Also interested to know about real experiences with getting Mexican citizenship if anyone has gone down that road already
maxsuur
2021-02-08 13:29
Me too
ben659
2021-02-08 17:19
Got it. Although isn?t it impossible to renounce Argentinian citizenship?
omocha_10
2021-02-08 20:21
Don?t know. But why renounce to it?
prashantpawar
2021-02-09 01:17
Wealth Tax
ben659
2021-02-09 04:04
I don?t want any citizenship I can?t renounce, especially not from Argentina
ben659
2021-02-09 04:05
(Love the people, many of my best friends are from there. But the state is a disaster)
omocha_10
2021-02-09 12:53
If the state is a disaster, it works both ways....
As far as I know, you pay taxes and n your country of residency, not in the one you are Citizen/national from, except for USA and Eritea....
So you could leave. I think if you spend 12 month away, that cuts your tax residency in Argentina, but I am not a professional.
mich_cello
2021-02-11 23:31
@kuka may I ask how you can get it? My wife is Russian but no way to get it without being resident there for years (and doing a bunch of bureaucratic shit)
kuka
2021-02-12 01:29
Yeah, sure! So basically, I got to know that they changed the federal law in 2020 and I practically fit into all categories of theirs as I?m a citizen of a post-USSR country, my grandma had a Russian citizenship and I speak Russian at a native level. I?ll just need to stay in Russia for 3-4 months and it should be pretty smooth. I spoke with a lawyer and they confirmed so I?ll do that once I?ll be out there.
It helps my situation as I?m working on a Canadian citizenship, and Russia has no problem with dual citizenship while most of the other CIS countries do. So I?ll be switching to that I think. Anyway, to apply those changes to your situation: with the new rules (assuming you?re a typical westerner with no ties to USSR), there are really good news. You should be able to get a Russian citizenship via expedited process if you have any children with your Russian spouse. If that?s the case, you would need to relocate to Russia, register as a foreigner and start the process which should take 3-4 months, same as me. There is an article about it here, po-russki of course (https://migrantmedia.ru/grazhdanstvo-rf-dlya-inostrannykh-grazhdan-kak-poluchit-rossiyskoe-grazhdanstvo/#poryadok-priobreteniya-rossijskogo-grazhdanstva).
jason
2021-02-12 02:02
"You should be able to get a Russian citizenship via expedited process if you have any children with your Russian spouse. If that?s the case, you would need to relocate to Russia, register as a foreigner and start the process which should take 3-4 months, same as me." that's very interesting, going to look into that myself..
jason
2021-02-12 02:04
My wife (also Russian) and I have a dream of getting a condo in Saint Petersburg to spend the summers once we are a bit older.. but right now for me to travel to Russia is an ordeal (visa paperwork)
mich_cello
2021-02-12 22:30
@kuka thanks, great to know!
mich_cello
2021-02-12 22:30
@jason what citizenship do you have (Italian also right)? Finally since last year (except for this pandemic period) we can travel to SPB with free electronic visa!
kuka
2021-02-12 22:31
Yeah, no prob. Best of luck!
jason
2021-02-12 23:59
@mich_cello yep, Italian, do you know how long that visa is good for?
mich_cello
2021-02-13 09:21
8 days!
jason
2021-02-14 21:10
I need to find something that's more on the order of 90 days
jason
2021-02-14 21:10
maybe one day I'll get a St. Kitts citizenship
mich_cello
2021-02-15 15:01
Business Visa for 1 year is 180 days
mich_cello
2021-02-15 15:02
I did 2-3 times
jason
2021-02-15 19:01
Last time I did a business visa to Russia I had to mail them my physcial passport (by post) and wait 3-4 weeks, is it still the same?
bobriakov.igor
2021-02-17 15:25
Russia has quite terrible climate for big part of a year
mich_cello
2021-02-19 10:08
@jason yes, I did send the passport to the visa agency. It took a couple of weeks to get it back (but it?s the same for tourist visa, that?s why e-visa is a big improvement)
burrup.lambert
2021-03-11 15:59
Has anyone applied for Portuguese or Spanish citizenship via Sephardic Jew roots? Or as anyone taken a genealogy test (in general?)
I meet someone on the weekend who know someone who did it, and they claimed that the person took a genealogy test and if for example there were 100 "heritage roots" (African, Asian etc), and one of them was "Jewish", it didn't matter what amount it was, only that it was on the list. Apparently they then used this as proof of ancestry for Spain.
sergiy.shlykov
2021-03-11 16:34
I know a guy who did it in Spain. He is Jewish, a citizen of Israel with a family name which he managed to find in the inquisition archives, so it was pretty easy to qualify. The process took around a year from the moment he learned about the option to get citizenship this way.
sergiy.shlykov
2021-03-11 16:36
If an 23 and me can be used for this, it should be easy enough to qualify. Are you planning to talk to a lawyer about this?
kuka
2021-03-11 17:06
So my 1% central asian jewish bloodline would be enough, is that what you are saying?
maxsuur
2021-03-11 19:58
That's interesting. I wonder if similar strategies could be used to apply for other citizenships
sergiy.shlykov
2021-03-11 20:13
+831 Spanish citizens :joy:
burrup.lambert
2021-03-11 22:24
I would love a genealogy report but don't trust private companies (or anyone) with my DNA if it is optional.
Are there any genealogy companies that respect privacy and for example destroy the DNA after the test?
kuka
2021-03-12 00:31
I?m pretty sure you could request deleting your account and destroying records of it with 23andme. (https://customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-us/articles/212170688-Requesting-23andMe-Account-Closure)
felix
2021-03-12 03:53
I know someone who became a Portuguese citizen through the Sephardic Jew _program_. I believe he didn?t do a DNA test for that, but personally very interested to see if it?s possible through an DNA test. Do you have more details on which test he did?
felix
2021-03-12 03:53
Might be also possible to get an Israeli passport?
burrup.lambert
2021-03-12 11:42
Looks like a few people are interested. I'll try and find more information!
a.adriano.bueno
2021-03-14 12:14
Hey @burrup.lambert, don't know if you still need it but I'm using this one for mine.
https://www.studiolegaleboschetti.com/
burrup.lambert
2021-03-14 19:34
Thanks!
claudiaroitmancorp
2021-03-16 21:22
Can someone get the Israeli passport (which requires a "center of life" in Israel) while at the same time being 6+ months in USA to keep a green card?
yaron.been
2021-03-17 09:20
@claudiaroitmancorp
You mind sharing what benefits are you expecting the get from the Israeli passport? besides the fact that it's a second passport
danz
2021-03-17 15:15
It can be beneficial, like 10 year tax-free income on foreign income if you haven't lived there before but have the roots
claudiaroitmancorp
2021-03-19 21:19
@yaron.been Israel is a good spot for tech work, so it would be helpful to have a work permit there. The government also supports small tech entrepreneurs afaik
claudiaroitmancorp
2021-03-19 21:19
It's also clearly better than some other passports like venezuelan, for example
yaron.been
2021-03-20 07:17
@claudiaroitmancorp
Cool, thank you for elaborating.
I'm Israeli, so I just wanted to know if there might be any benefits or aspects that I'm not aware of.
If you need any help or advice let me know.
prashantpawar
2021-04-12 14:34
@burrup.lambert also if it mattered that they were Sephardic or Ashkenazi jew?
maxsuur
2021-04-13 20:44
Any news?
buynps.org
2021-04-19 19:00
what do you guys think are the best CBI options right now? for a great deal
alexbadaoui1
2021-04-19 20:41
Antigua / Vanuatu
maticko
2021-04-19 20:58
im eyeballing kitts
buynps.org
2021-04-19 21:00
no votes for something like turkey?
maticko
2021-04-19 21:02
turkey is a shithole :slightly_smiling_face:
maticko
2021-04-19 21:03
pardon my french.
felix
2021-04-20 01:16
Nope, not eyeballing on Turkey. Don?t understand why anyone is hyping that. Would be one of the least desirable citizenships imho
felix
2021-04-20 01:16
I have Grenada on my list.
felix
2021-04-20 01:16
It offers visa free travel also to China which is quite unique in the Caribbean CBIs.
felix
2021-04-20 01:20
@claudiaroitmancorp can you elaborate how you can get an Israeli passport through ?center of life?? I thought it?s not easy to get your hands on the passport and only possible through ?return? or marriage
claudiaroitmancorp
2021-04-20 01:21
You first gotta get citizenship through law of return. Then you gotta live there for a year to get the passport
claudiaroitmancorp
2021-04-20 01:21
I meant for people who are Jewish and qualify for the law of return
claudiaroitmancorp
2021-04-20 01:22
You can also marry someone who does or even convert
felix
2021-04-20 01:26
Thank you for the clarification. I probably would qualify through my grandparents. Need to check the details though. How was the process for you?
claudiaroitmancorp
2021-04-20 01:27
Didnt do it yet but you have to ask the synagogue or a similar Jewish institution to write a paper saying you are actually Jewish
claudiaroitmancorp
2021-04-20 01:27
Or show other proof like Jewish marriage certificate
claudiaroitmancorp
2021-04-20 01:28
The rest should be very easy
felix
2021-04-20 01:31
Great! Thank you for sharing!
danz
2021-04-20 17:34
I think it's not that difficult from what I understood from a lawyer. I asked a lawyer about this a few months ago as I would be eligible to apply for it. The process would take several months because there was a backlog at the courthouses, but the process was pretty straight forward. You need to get a blood test from your family member to prove you have ties to the country. They didn't mention that living there a year was needed before you get the passport, they said the process would take several months. (so I would assume less than 6 months). They also didn't mention anything yet about the institution writing a paper, but I didn't continue to much as I am not going to do it for now. But I read something about it online to.
claudiaroitmancorp
2021-04-20 21:49
They don't mention it but you need to stay a year in Israel after getting citizenship to receive the passport
alex720
2021-04-20 22:18
Can anyone recommend a lawyer for Israeli citizenship for Jews living abroad?
alex720
2021-04-20 22:18
@claudiaroitmancorp
alex720
2021-04-20 22:18
@yaron.been
danz
2021-04-21 13:58
Good to know that
yaron.been
2021-04-21 18:11
@alex720
Can you clarify a bit what you're looking for?
As an israeli I've never messed with these things but can check with my friends
alex720
2021-04-21 20:52
I am born to Jewish parents. Looking for a lawyer to help me get Israeli citizenship based on my Jewish roots, without moving to Israel @yaron.been
burrup.lambert
2021-04-23 00:39
I'm in contact with the person now. Any questions you have, write here or PM and I will ask for you!
prashantpawar
2021-04-23 00:40
Did they show Ashkenazi ancestry or Sephardic ancestry?
yaron.been
2021-04-23 17:10
@alex720
I've checked with friends of mine, none of them know anybody who does this.
I don't think it's uncommon it's just that most of us didn't need it since we were born in Israel.
I think a better route would be to look in dedicated Facebook groups that have people who actually did this.
Let me know if there's anything I can help with, apologize for not being able to provide better advice
alex720
2021-04-23 17:11
Thank you and no worries
claudiaroitmancorp
2021-04-23 17:52
There's no need for a lawyer. If you're actually Jewish just reach out to hiller, or directly to birthright Israel via email or phone
alex720
2021-04-23 17:53
What is hiller? @claudiaroitmancorp
claudiaroitmancorp
2021-04-23 17:54
Hillel
alex720
2021-04-23 17:54
Oh ok thank you
prashantpawar
2021-04-23 23:34
Because it?s a real passport. I am on another group of HNWI and they have Caribbean passports, they are reporting problems with banks opening accounts for you on that passport, travel issues through US etc. Turkey has a real economy, real military (for airlifting etc), and way better investment opportunity for CIP.
They actually consider Turkish CIP as the best CIP. Followed by Mexican residency program (they?re all getting that one too).
burrup.lambert
2021-04-23 23:49
Ok so the guy wasn't really helpful.
Did they show Ashkenazi ancestry or Sephardic ancestry? "Not really".
He started with heritage he was already aware of and went from there. The DNA test did not add much (if anything) to the application but gave him and idea of where to start.
He is not Jewish or a practising Jew. He got a certificate of his Jewish heritage and something that says "technically" he is a Jew for the application. He is from Columbia and the Catholic Church (in Columbia) actually had all the documents he was looking for about his ancestors.
If anyone is Columbian who is looking to start the process I can probably get you the contact details of the services he used.
About it. Not much help.
ladislasmaurice
2021-04-27 11:11
Turkey, especially if you buy real estate in the secondary market. It?s actually not a bad investment either long term.
All the other CBIs involve a large, upfront loss
felix
2021-04-29 10:46
For a country that has every 5 or so years a military coup and de facto lives under a dictatorship, I wouldn?t bet too confident on their passport status. Minorities get killed on the border, weapons get shipped to Syria, etc. From a long-term standpoint these would be red flags for me, because it damages international relations (which is one of the major factors to consider the hen choosing a pssport). But hey, if it works for you, great. Just my 2 cents.
burrup.lambert
2021-05-13 15:29
994kaloyan
2021-05-13 19:12
lol Australia has gone full communist
brent
2021-05-13 22:58
@994kaloyan Indeed. However this just shows that citizenship means bugger all. Multiple citizenships/residencies is key...
22525
2021-05-20 02:56
_In 1788 the First Fleet of British ships arrived at Sydney to establish the penal colony._
otkeedca
2021-07-03 05:07
*Thought experiment:*�You're a citizen of a country that allows you to renounce your citizenship (let's say Canada). You're also a citizen of another country that does not allow you to surrender your citizenship (let's say Argentina).
You apply for citizenship in a third country that does not allow dual citizenship and requires you to renounce your citizenship to obtain theirs (let's say Ukraine).
*In this scenario, could you use your Argentina citizenship for the basis of gaining Ukrainian citizenship? Would Ukraine "ignore" your Canadian citizenship?*
Has anyone here had real-life experience with this scenario?
sergiy.shlykov
2021-07-03 05:31
I do not have real-life experience with this, but there must be some valid loopholes to not give up any of your passports. Especially with a developing country like Ukraine in this example. If i were you, i?d talk to a good local immigration lawyer.
sergiy.shlykov
2021-07-03 05:32
A bit of money paid to the right person can go a long way in Ukraine :grin:
otkeedca
2021-07-03 05:34
I just used the countries above as an example, but I am in a similar scenario in another country :slightly_smiling_face: That's good advice to speak to a local lawyer though. It would be great to hear from any others who might have some insight into a loophole like this (or any other one).
sergiy.shlykov
2021-07-03 05:40
In the Netherlands you have to give up your citizenship when you become Dutch. There was an exception some time ago (~7 years) and i am not sure if it still works: They would let you keep your passport if you have significant inheritance in the country of origin and if not having the local citizenship excludes you from being a receiver of it. Of course this ?significant inheritance? part can be faked easily so i am not sure what the process of verifying this would be and what the ins and outs are.
otkeedca
2021-07-03 05:43
ah, that's a very interesting exception
mb
2021-07-03 05:50
These are the translated Dutch rules about that https://www-rijksoverheid-nl.translate.goog/onderwerpen/nederlandse-nationaliteit/dubbele-nationaliteit?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=ajax,nv,elem
otkeedca
2021-07-03 05:51
Thanks @mb
mb
2021-07-03 05:52
And I think Germany has some exceptions too.
mb
2021-07-03 05:53
Can I become a naturalized citizen without giving up my previous citizenship?
Section 12 of the Nationality Act
As a rule, no. One aim of German nationality law is to avoid creating multiple nationality through naturalization as far as possible. However, there are exceptions for cases of special hardship.
otkeedca
2021-07-03 06:01
I'm not sure if that map is entirely accurate. I was just reading the citizenship law of Serbia and they require a person to renounce foreign citizenship
benjamin
2021-07-03 09:04
Surely it would be "intention to renounce". How could you renounce citizenship before being given the new citizenship? Then you'd be stateless for a short time.
Often intention to renounce just requires you sending a letter to an embassy letting them know you're planning to renounce. That won't actually do anything as most countries have a larger process to renounce.
Most people I know just keep all citizenships as countries can't control the rules of other places.
I could be wrong, but that's my understanding.
otkeedca
2021-07-03 09:12
From the laws I've been reading, it seems that many countries require proof from your original country of citizenship that they will revoke your citizenship upon you receiving the new one. This eliminates the stateless problem. In this case, you have to actually go through a formal renunciation procedure in your home country to get this proof.
bountybairn
2021-07-03 10:55
@otkeedca this may be true, but surely only where you cannot be a dual citizen, and I imagine most countries allow this rather than prevent it
burrup.lambert
2021-07-03 14:30
For a general FYI: Naturalised Argentinians *can* renounce their citizenship. It is born Argentinians that can't. Though as with most things in Argentina, there is always a way.
For anyone considering being naturalised in Argentina, this shouldn't be a deterrent.
ternzocorp
2021-07-03 15:18
Ukraine probably is not the best example. It's nuanced. Ukraine in particular "ignores" your other citizenships (no recognition), but you're not forbidden to apply as far as I'm concerned (Ukranians applying for Canadian citizenship as an example). They were looking into creating dual-citizenship laws to officially recognize other ones, but not sure what's the status of that effort. Basically, at this moment, they see you as Ukrainian citizen only - no matter what.
otkeedca
2021-07-04 00:09
Yeah, I probably shouldn't have used Ukraine as an example. A better example would be Serbia, as they specifically have this wording in their Law on Citizenship Article 14: "He is released from foreign citizenship or he submits the evidence that he will be granted the dismissal if admitted to citizenship of the Republic of Serbia;"
otkeedca
2021-07-04 00:13
However, they do have an exception for circumstances where your country of origin won't release you from citizenship. But most countries will let you renounce. Serbia is considered to fully accept dual citizenship, but I don't know how this can be true with a clause like this.
otkeedca
2021-07-04 01:48
@burrup.lambert This is interesting. Is there a precedent for naturalized Argentines renouncing successfully in case law? or is this a "with the right connections" sort of method?
otkeedca
2021-07-04 01:51
The recent covid emergency tax on the wealthy would make me think twice about naturalising in Argentina
burrup.lambert
2021-07-04 04:08
Yes there is precedent. I have heard of one person losing it because because of criminal charges, and another renouncing because they were obtaining citizenship of a country that did not allow dual citizenship (or similar). I do not know the specifics.
burrup.lambert
2021-07-04 04:10
If you are an Argentine you are only a tax resident if you spend more then 3 months in Argentina each year.
stolzlos
2021-07-14 08:06
From what I read online about SG citizenship, you can apply after 2 years after getting PR. Any downsides to SG citizenship? Thoughts?
brent
2021-07-14 09:01
You will technically have to renounce any other citizenships you may hold.
Also, getting PR is very difficult. They want people who will start families. They are not interested in someone who is single, even if they're a high earner. Good friend of mine is ex-Amazon and now working for another well known tech company. He's been there 6 years and they told him that he'd never qualify for PR (because he's single).
stolzlos
2021-07-14 09:19
well, I don't have that problem :wink:
stolzlos
2021-07-14 09:19
but good to know. thanks
vinodgn0088
2021-07-14 12:39
@stolzlos, Marry someone from Singapore, make one to two "Made in Singapore" babies. Live in Singapore for 5yrs or more. If you do all of these, you can give a try to getting SG citizenship. That too not 100% guaranteed
stolzlos
2021-07-14 12:52
will try to discuss that with my wife. I assume I won't survive the encounter.
ashishbhatia.ab
2021-07-17 15:07
Which countries in Latin America are the best bet for gaining citizenship? I'm concerned of not taking one in Argentina given the recent wealth tax. And I know quite a few stories of Startup Chile participants who never even got the PR. Despite spending more than 5 years in Chile.
burrup.lambert
2021-07-17 17:16
The wealth tax only applies if you are a tax resident, it is not based on citizenship.
ashishbhatia.ab
2021-07-17 20:05
@burrup.lambert well I'll have to be a tax resident for at least 2 years to be a citizen. So, they might end up imposing another one during that timeframe
simon
2021-07-17 20:09
@ashishbhatia.ab What what I understand, it?s not a requirement to have paid any tax when applying for citizenship. There?s also the Tierra Del Fuego hack if you want to be in the clear
burrup.lambert
2021-07-17 22:25
What @simon says is true. You do not need to pay any taxes to apply for naturalisation. You just need to file paperwork.
I still think Argentina is the best option. It is one of the quickest in the world for naturalisation and the quality of life to price ratio in Buenos Aires can not be beaten. Argentina is also a Mercosur country enabling you to move to and gain a 2 year temporary residence visa in another Mercosur country which can be upgraded to PR after 3 years, assuming you naturalize in Argentina. Argentina also has visa free access to Russia if that concerns you.
There is also a possibility that it enables fast tracked naturalisation in Spain after 2 years (not confirmed).
Chile takes 5 years. Paraguay is 3 on paper but apparently very corrupt.
felix
2021-07-18 00:52
What?s that hack, Simon?
simon
2021-07-18 01:59
Residents of Tierra Del Fuego are exempt from most taxes (including corporate taxation, if you run a business from there). The hack involves registering there but living in BA.
simon
2021-07-18 02:00
It?s a hack because to claim the exemptions you are supposed to reside in TdF. In a way, it?s similar to registering in one EU country but living quietly in another.
ashishbhatia.ab
2021-07-18 06:04
Interesting. Were the residents of Tierra Del Fuego excluded from the recent wealth tax as well?
ashishbhatia.ab
2021-07-18 06:06
Thanks. While I agree with the rest of the remark. I don't think the Spanish citizenship remark is true. Many have clarified to me that the fast track Spanish citizenship applies only to citizens born in Latin America and not to the naturalized ones.
ashishbhatia.ab
2021-07-18 06:07
@simon ignoring the Tierra Del Fuego, isn't someone required to spend enough time in Argentina to fall in their tax net?
simon
2021-07-18 06:36
Yes but it?s Argentina so there?s no enforcement (and your tax status isn?t taken into consideration when applying for citizenship)
simon
2021-07-18 06:37
TdF residents are not subject to the wealth tax (as per PWC).
felix
2021-07-18 07:00
Amazing Simon! Thank you a lot for sharing this.
ashishbhatia.ab
2021-07-18 07:56
Wow. So, I can get the residency l, leave, and come back after 2 years apply for the citizenship. There won't be a check for the actual time spent on the ground?
sergiy.shlykov
2021-07-18 10:00
@ashishbhatia.ab I think Simon meant that you can stay outside of that province and still claim the tax benefits, but you still have to reside within Argentina for half the year
sergiy.shlykov
2021-07-18 10:01
Is not the fast track naturalization for Spain only for citizens born in Argentina?
burrup.lambert
2021-07-18 13:44
No, it is basically for any 'Ibero-American' country that was a former Spanish colony. Philippines also qualifies.
burrup.lambert
2021-07-18 13:49
Who are the people who have clarified @ashishbhatia.ab? I put 'not confirmed' because I know in law it specifically states natural born citizens (I've read the document) but have been told that in reality it might not be applicable. I'm yet to find anyone who has attempted it though.
ashishbhatia.ab
2021-07-18 19:15
@burrup.lambert individuals on some other forums. All hearsay.
burrup.lambert
2021-07-19 02:25
What's the forum @ashishbhatia.ab?
benjamin
2021-07-26 02:23
Anyone ever tried travelling on the worst passport (World Government) in the world? I'm assuming is mostly for stateless people or people protesting. But, super interesting that it's been accepted by a lot of countries at one point or another.
I actually like what the whole message is from them about freedom of travel and being a world citizen. But the idea of a passport with visa free access to no where isn't attractive.
That being said, the more people the use it the more respect it gets. Plus it's been around for 50+ years apparently.
https://worldservice.org/docpass.html?s=1
prashantpawar
2021-08-04 17:38
It?s because of the language written in the law of Spain
http://derechocivil-ugr.es/attachments/article/45/spanish-civil-code.pdf
ashishbhatia.ab
2021-08-04 23:41
https://www.creimermanlaw.com/post/paraguay-the-exceptional-passport-on-offer-for-foreigners-looking-to-relocate-to-latin-america no idea how true it is but a friend had a call with them. 70,000 USD is the donation amount and you will get the passport and citizenship by spending one week in Paraguay.
frederic.scheffer
2021-08-05 03:07
Anyone confirming? Should we charter a freedom surfer private jet there?
giovannilaperna
2021-08-06 07:40
How do you know it costs 70.000 USD? Did you talk with them?
ashishbhatia.ab
2021-08-06 08:34
A friend had a call with them.
ivan550
2021-08-08 15:14
Does anybody have clear information about the Citizenship in Portugal? The internet tells me so many different things.
I basically want to be a resident in Portugal so I'm able to travel around Europe without continuously applying for visa. Was anybody successful in doing this?
koshis
2021-08-08 22:18
@ashishbhatia.ab dis they confirm this is actually a passport and not just Paraguayan residency with national ID card etc
ashishbhatia.ab
2021-08-08 22:28
Yeah. A passport as per the friend
jason
2021-08-10 15:37
I'm seeing some US consulates / embassies are not scheduling appointments for US renunciations, how widespread is this currently?
internationalbits
2021-08-15 10:14
ridiculous
994kaloyan
2021-08-16 12:48
lol
994kaloyan
2021-08-16 12:48
it seems to have hurt them :smile:
jason
2021-08-16 19:23
looking forward to renouncing myself :the_horns:
michael
2021-08-19 15:31
Anyone confirm if this is real?
digimkt
2021-08-19 16:31
guys don't be foolished. 1 - to get a residency and passport is not something that is instant, all countries will have like 2 - 4 years residency before being able to get passport.
2 - paraguay the residency program is like 5k USD you do need interpol criminal record to apply
3 - Panam� is a better solution for residency since it's a great business hub and still to get passport will take years.
4 - If you are more then 180 days in a country you usually are tax resident there so to live in a country and legally avoid taxes you need to setup a good international structure usually with trusts and/or foundations owning offshore and onshore corps
digimkt
2021-08-19 16:32
probably not the best option to get residency, think in EU cyprus or malta are best.
internationalbits
2021-08-20 09:46
hi guys do you have any immigration lawyer in portugal to refer?
michael
2021-08-20 14:46
Thank you @digimkt
youssef
2021-08-22 19:00
Hey folks! I require a US-visa to enter the US as an Egyptian. Problem is, because of COVID, the next available appointment at the embassy is in September 2022 (One year from now). I know that you can technically apply for a US visa in many embassies around the world even if you're not a resident of the country. Anyone have any experience with this and can recommend a US embassy without a never-ending queue and that accepts non-resident to apply?
taylorwalkerllc
2021-08-23 02:56
Why Not call another Embassy you can get a Tourist Visa fast? Like United Arab Emirates etc.
prashantpawar
2021-08-23 16:22
I can recommend we are going with (its Sovereign Man recommendation and many people have already successfully submitted their application with them. DM me.
coreyarice
2021-09-08 21:47
I think it is the other way around, if you spend more then 9 months in Argentina you pay taxes. You have to leave for 3 months a year to avoid taxes
alexbadaoui1
2021-09-15 16:55
How does one get a citizenship in Estonia?